[MD] Animate vs inanimate

[Heather Perella]

Ham,


     [Ham]
> I don't much care for your use of "translates to"
> and "translation" in your
> recent posts.   It reminds me of what they call
> "fuzzy math", and it leads
> to fuzzy thinking.  A thing is what it is, not what
> it translates to.
> Knowledge and ideas can be expressed in poetry, art,
> fiction -- even
> music -- but fundamental principles lose their
> precision when muddied up
> this way.

     Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, I use translate since we will not
all use the same words to talk about reality.  I never
see a 'not other' and being and awareness when you
talk about such 'things'.  I have to rely on you
defining such 'things' and putting them into context,
because you'll never actually develop this reality
that is already here and developed.


     [Ham]
> That's why I'm critical of a philosopher
> who presents his
> metaphysics or morality system as a fictionalized
> novel, forcing the reader
> to interpret the author's real meaning from the
> dialogue of its characters.
> You can see the consequences from the endless
> debates in this forum.  I'm a
> literalist, as you know; I call a spade a spade. 
> Metaphors and analogies
> can be useful in explaining or illustrating a
> complex point, but
> philosophical concepts are difficult enough to
> comprehend without
> "translating" them into ambiguous art forms.

      Philosophical concepts are art forms.  When does
reality actually ever be philosophical concepts.  Your
such a literalist, that you think reality is concepts.
 We're all literalist, Ham.  We all think we're
conceptualizing what's real.  And the translations go
on...
 

     [Ham] 
> You are expressing "feelings", and there's nothing
> wrong with that.  In
> fact, it's the only way we can sense Value.  In
> philosophy, however, it's
> the principle that counts, because it's fundamental
> to the theory.  You
> can't develop a workable system of mathematics on
> the "baker's dozen".  You
> can't define word meanings using only metaphors.

     My reality has feelings.
 
     [Ham]
> Like any other discipline,
> unless the fundamentals are laid out axiomatically,
> you invite confusion and
> obfuscation.  This is what I think has happened to
> the MoQ.

     Not really sure what your talking about here.  I
don't see axiomatically and obfuscations flying in the
sky, pulsing in our hearts, or streaming across my
mind.  You've got to be more creative and define such
seemingly fictional, made-up things.  Fictional
'things' are real and imaginative.  Concepts make
imaginary houses into real shelters.  Ham your just
making autumn become too complex.  Please define these
words.  Life is simple, unless you want to make it
complex.  It's your choice.

     [Ham] 
> The philosopher's challenge is to codify the kind of
> experience you feel
> when fishing or bird-watching into a set of basic
> tenets that can be applied
> conceptually to all such experiences.

     Why conceptualize and make basic tenets about a
reality that's right here for you to participate with?
 Too much time on ones hands.  I'd rather let a bird
think for me while she sings a leisure song.  Again,
not saying your wrong or right, just saying your
translation comes in a different form.  Yours is in a
book, and mine is in a walk in the woods, a quiet
night sipping tea in the house, etc...  I'm livin'
reality.  I don't need to come up with what reality is
- due to it being right here.  Do I translate it into
thoughts and words, of course, we all do.  I
anthropomorphize and naturomorphize.

     [Ham]
> Ad hominem
> appeals have their place
> in discussion; but nothing beats logic for
> intellectual understanding.  At
> least, that's been my experience.

     Yeah, we have logic, we have heart, and we sleep.
 That's been my experience.

     I'm done.  Instead of going to look at a tree,
your going to try to develop basic tenets,
conceptualize, and make a tree into a logical
imagination.  I'm going to step outside onto the
porch, and know exactly what a tree is, and it's not
just a trunk with leaves.  It's autumn, with birds,
and the smell of damp autumn soil.  It's pokeweed,
hemlock, gray clouds, and human heart.

As I said, I know where you're coming from, and I
survive with a pleasant, clear-minded, warm as green
tea way of life, too.  We all translate what happens
on the back porch during the day and night.

Glad we could chat a bit,
I'm done,
SA

P.S.     A, if you want to respond, that's fine
obviously.  I'll probably read it, but please comment
with a knowing that I'm probably not going to comment
back on this line of discussion - no offense.  Chats
don't have to be convincing arguments, just chats. 
Thanks. 

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