[MD] Crystallising Chaos.

[Case]

Mark: Hello Case.
I'm trying to hone in on the central interest for me, so apologies if it
looks like i'm ignoring stuff you have written. I am reading it all.
But, as you know, i'm using the GOFC and not non-linear chaos utterflies
and stuff.
OK.
So, in a cosmogony sense, yes, i was using past tense!
Think about it? All there is, at this point of evolution, is DQ and
unstructured value (chaos).
Nothing else at all, no energy, no mass, nothing but unstructured
value(chaos) and DQ.
The next step involves DQ using an aspect of unstructured value (chaos) to
point values toward structure.
This is the self similar harmonic transition.
So, now we have, DQ, unstructured value (chaos), and sq (structured value).
In other words, chaos is pre-inorganic value.
Still OK?
Now we have our cake and we get to eat it, cos chaos is still  around...

[Case]
It seems that what you are talking about is what happened before the Big
Bang, no? If so I would have to defer to Hawkings who claims, that would
be unknowable. From the standpoint of the world as it is what ever existed
before that point is outside of the laws of physics and has no effect on
what came after it. Now of course that does not mean that it is not fun to
speculate. But what standard would you use to evaluate such speculation?

That said, what you or describing above is very similar to what I
originally thought Pirsig was getting at with Quality DQ and SQ. I would
shift the terms about a bit because this is how I have come to think of
them but the meaning is about the same.

You have:
DQ > Chaos / SQ

I would label it:

Quality > DQ / SQ

I have always liked this one because it follows a Taoist metaphysics which
is near and dear to my heart. But from the stand point of even GOFC a
simpler and more monistic formulation would be:

Chaos > order/disorder

I confess to being a bit shakey on these points so your views are helpful
but the one point you keep making that bothers me is the implication that
DQ has intention and is an active agent. Why is this important to you?

Mark: Just as Biological sq values such as Cats and  Dogs transform
Inorganic sq patterns for their own survival, so Inorganic  patterns
transform chaos for their own survival, Case: 'it is in the very nature 
of change.'

[Case]
Do you really think that inorganic structures are concerned with their own
survival? How so?


[Case]
Tasty jazzy sound from Hackett. I am out there downloading some more. The
guitar sound is great but at a couple of point where he played one of
those really long notes, it did sound a bit sythesized. I did go the the
Fernades site to see what that thing did and it is pretty cool. Also
looking to give that Brain May solo a second listen. I have heard "I Want
to Break Free" but never listened to it with the Roland angle in mind. I
wonder how the idea behind the sustainer applies to what we are talking
about above. After all what the sustainer is doing is introducing positive
feedback into the string vibration. In the old days this only occurred
when the amp volume was loud enough to introduce energy back into the
string vibration. The result as you know was a feedback loop that
uncontroled would fry the amp.