[MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) as Power

[ian glendinning]

Good reference David,
Somewhat lost by the MD the thread since, but Arlo's point below is a
good summary.

The argument in the Turner / Miller discussion seems incomplete.
OK, so the point at which natural science breaks down is in the
existence of anything at all ... as a given, a gift from God. That's
the "hole" in any metaphysics that cannot be viewed from the other
side, no one (with any sense) can presume to make strong argument for
or against anything in that hole. A theistic metaphor is as good as
any, in that context, even a sentient, intentional being. But in the
real world we're concerned mainly with doings rather than beings.

So, it is not adequate to plug any other holes in natural science in
general with this kind of  convenient "god"... "science" is all
contingent anyway, and has plenty of debatable holes of incomplete /
uncertain knowledge. The core metaphysical hole can never be plugged
by rational science, by defintion. Other holes are merely
circumstantial and any god vs science debate in these cases is
meaningless.

In the sphere where natural science does not hold, I'm indifferent /
agnostic. In the sphere of natural science I'm atheist, but that's
practically a trusim, a tautology.

Ian

On 9/17/06, ARLO J BENSINGER JR <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:
> With my morning coffee this morning, I found a short quote from the former
> Republican Senator and Episcopalian Priest John Danforth that sums up what I
> was trying to say last night (from his upcoming book "Faith & Politics".
>
> "Real faith is about searching for answers, not presuming to know them."
>
> In this one sentence is the split between considering metaphor as a path to
> understand something about our existence, and the literalization that
> obliterates the metaphor in favor of "my God is the only God" and subservience
> to a social power structure. In this one sentence one can also see the DQ/SQ
> split, as "searching for answers" is active and dynamic, while "presuming to
> know them" is not only static, but subsitutes egoism for spirituality.
>
> And it is there that the problems begin.
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