[MD] Flying Spaghetti Monsters

[Micah]

Ian,

You didn't define "public interest", you just renamed it using less
definable terms. The problem with the "public interest" is that it is
definable, but no one will abide by the proper definition.

The "public interest" is that which is the best interest of the public.
Meaning that everyone agrees with and can benefit from, that interest. The
only thing that can be agreed on and benefit all, is freedom. Freedom is the
only "public interest". Freedom is also the only greater good, and it
increases happiness...and it has quality. You may say some people do not
want to be free, but that is a choice that is made through freedom. Beware
those that don't define the "public interest", because surely enslavement is
their interest.

Who do you consider good/great writers? Pirsig?

I would remind you that "free economy" implies no interference. Adam Smith
has covered self interest and free economies in "Wealth of Nations", so I
won't attempt to here. But how do you feel about tobacco subsides? That work
out for you?

As for mimicking her style, your review contains no gray. You say the idea
was "great" and the execution "painful", which I equate to hate, because I
hate feeling pain. You however, if I read correctly, do not hate pain...do I
detect a little Sadomasochism?

You felt "disappointed and sad for her"? What an odd little statement.

Micah


-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of ian glendinning
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:43 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] Flying Spaghetti Monsters


Micah, not being an objectivist myself, I may be unable to provide the
answer you want.

Greater good of the greater number, net increase in happiness, net
progress up the MoQ hierarchy. Some good utilitarian (pragmatic)
measure.

Hate is a bit strong, but I found her style painful, I actually fely
disappointed and sad for her. It didn't stop me searching for her
arguments though, but I just couldn't find any, and nor could anybody
I asked on here.

I'd be interested in an example I could either agree with or refute
(other than the implicit one I already gave ... about bad public
interference in free economy somehow inferring that public
interference was ispo-facto bad.)

I'd also be interested in an example of where you see my style as
mimicking hers, It's quite possible, a kind of catch-22 of finding any
credible way of breaking out of the objectivist style of
argumentation.

Ian

On 9/26/06, Micah <micah at roarkplumbing.com> wrote:
> Ian,
>
> As an Objectivist, I would be interested in your definition of the "public
> interest".
>
> As for writing style, Ayn fits her philosophy - which is the mark of a
good
> writer. Characters are good or bad, etc. Ayn is either loved or hated.
> Objectivism - either/or - good/bad. You even mimic her style in review.
>
> Which of her arguments can you logically refute?
>
> I totally agree that MOQ and Objectivism are tight.
>
> Micah
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of ian glendinning
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 3:13 PM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Flying Spagetti Monsters
>
>
> Hi Ben, You said
> I've read Atlas, which I thought was a brilliant book.  Rand condemns
> altrusim, which I thought was the weakest part of her argument, although
she
> may be defining altruism differently than how I would.  Rand condemns
> certain behaviors that are justified as being altruistic (such as wealth
> redistribution) but I believe her to be quite an altruist herself.  The
> whole point of her book is that by disrespecting the industrialists--the
> movers and the shakers--politicans and bureaucrats destroy society.
>
> I've read it too. I thought it was brilliant idea for a book, but I
> found her thin on actual arguments generally, and mind-numbingly
> pedestrian in style.
>
> The behaviors she condemns, that were justified as altruistic, were in
> fact so obviously fictional, misguided, misconceived and corruptly
> applied legislation etc, that I found her pointing out the folly as
> just too simplistic. No way did she have any arguments against well
> devised "public interest" incentives.
>
> This industrialist is good, this law is bad, these law makers are
> corrupt, therefore any and all public intervention is bad. Some
> argument.
>
> Disrespecting anybody is bad for society, not just industrialists.
> (She just saw the US in contrast to her troubled Soviet motherland at
> the time, and made too simple a conclusion. McArthyist I said several
> times) I did find that in summary her philosophy, despite being
> descibed as "objectivism", was remarkably close to evolutionary
> psychology and MoQ in practice.
>
> Ian
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