[MD] are theism and mysticism mutually exclusive notions?

[david buchanan]

Case said to dmb:
Perhaps I have misunderstood but eastern religions that call for one to see 
through the illusion of the material world and identify with the whole ask 
you to see that you are the cosmos. To elevate oneself to Godhood certainly 
seems narcissistic to me.

dmb says:
Yea, it sounds mad, like some kind of, um, blasphemy. See, the distinction 
between theism and non-theistic mysticism is very much on display in your 
own attitudes. But, again, you have offered a completely bogus argument. The 
word narcissistic is nothing but a negative characterization of the motives 
of the person who holds this view, but it does not address the validity or 
soundness of the view itself. You're merely saying that there is something 
wrong with the person who asserts this. Saying that it "seems narcissistic" 
is not an argument. It vaguely expresses disapproval, but does so without 
offering any actual reasons. I don't mind the insults if they're used as 
gravy, but where's the beef, man? And yes, you have misunderstood. The 
doctrine "Thou art That" is not about self-aggrandizement. In fact, the 
enlightenment experience is often described in terms of a disolution of the 
self, a death of the self, the loss of ego consciousness and that sort of 
thing.

dmb said:
...The fact that Judaism would regard the assertions of mystic as a 
blasphemy sort of shows you what it means to say that theism and mysticism 
are incompatible.

Case replied:
Jewish mysticism involves study and deeper understanding of the Torah. To 
Jews such mystical assertions are not blasphemous but to claim to be God or 
to identify the self with God would be blasphemy. Again their understanding 
of what mysticism is does not square with yours.

dmb says:
Exactly my point, Sherlock. Their understanding does not square with mine. 
You keep saying that there is mysticism in the theistic, dualistic 
religions, but their idea of what is and is not mysticism is very much at 
odds with the assertions I'm making. This is the distinction you have been 
dismissing as the unimportant ravings of a narcissistic blasphemer. Put that 
on your irony scale and weigh it. But be sure to wear a pair of safety 
glasses because springs will be flying out of it in every direction.

Thanks.
dmb

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