[MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience, and Religion (SQ) as Power

[David M]

Hi Ian

Sounds balanced to me, agreed on DMB too.
He seems to pick fights with anyone who
might be quite close to him. Maybe he's got intimacy
issues (that's a joke DMB)?

David M

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "ian glendinning" <psybertron at gmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2006 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] New Model Army, Mystic(DQ) Experience,and Religion (SQ) as 
Power


> Hi David
>
> Interesting, in your case, I'm not sure I understand how dropping
> atheism meant you became a theist ... or do I not know you as well as
> I think ?
>
> You're right though, whilst I express atheism, it's really a non-issue
> for me, quite different to say DMB for whom it is an almost crusading
> issue to be fought at each opportunity. Which isn't to say I don't
> denounce dogmatic (religious) extremism in "real life" ... I just see
> no point denouncing theism per se.
>
> And strangely it's probably the only point where I find myself at odds
> with DMB. I love his thoughts (and his writing) in every other
> respect. Weird.
>
> Which always makes me question whether I'm just agnostic. I always
> conclude no, I'm actually atheist ... like, it's an issue important
> enough for me to have a strong view on (which I clearly do).
>
> My phrase-de-jour is "Strong views, lightly held."
> Ian
>
> On 9/27/06, David M <davidint at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Ian said to David M:
>> > OK, so the point at which natural science breaks down is in the 
>> > existence
>> > of
>> > anything at all ... as a given, a gift from God. That's the "hole" in 
>> > any
>> > metaphysics that cannot be viewed from the other
>> > side, no one (with any sense) can presume to make strong argument for 
>> > or
>> > against anything in that hole. A theistic metaphor is as good as any, 
>> > in
>> > that context, even a sentient, intentional being. ...Other holes are
>> > merely
>> > circumstantial and any god vs science debate in these cases is
>> > meaningless.
>> >
>>
>>
>> Hi  Ian
>>
>> Yep, I agree with George Steiner when he describes theology, at its best,
>> as poetry on the subject of god. I started life as a lefty materialist
>> atheist.
>> So I studied science and saw the limitations of its scope, discovered
>> philosophy as the only really interesting subject (OK I do history and
>> politics and art on the side) and discovered that it has limited scope
>> issues too,
>> so the materialism got dropped, and so did the atheism because it really
>> has no basis, and you get to see that there are experiences and 
>> possibilties
>> to ponder on the other side of mere disciplines, and the best appears
>> at certain extremes of religious & philosophical speculation and also
>> art and poetry (maybe also some rather speculative science, about 
>> creation
>> rather than mere repetition).
>>
>> David M
>>
>>
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