[MD] Pirsig on capitalism, socialism

[Arlo Bensinger]

[Platt]
Unfortunately U.S. public schools do not rank well compared to the 
rest of the industrialized world.

[Arlo]
And yet the "rest of the industrialized world" is a public education 
system. So, again, it is not the "public" that is the problem. 
Reform? Yes, when needed. Abolish in favor of private schools? No, thanks.

[Mati]
... if the private schools live by the rule we in the publics system 
live by, then I am all game...

[Arlo]
This touches on the very some studies have found private schools to 
do better, skewed results from a misaligned comparison.

[Mati]
Public school overall do an incredible job as it is.

[Arlo]
Yes, they do. And the fact that they are under perennial assault from 
right-wing ideologues is shameful.

[Platt]
In the past, "difficult to handle" kids were sent to reform school.

[Arlo]
"Difficult", we have learned, may be the product of a number of 
things, including differing learning styles. One reason why I favor 
Charter and Alternative Schools is for their ability to target 
particular learning styles of a subpopulation. Each child's situation 
should be examined carefully, and handle uniquely to best serve that 
child. Dumping "difficult kids" into a reform school is just another 
way sweeping the riff-raff under the carpet.

[Platt]
As for "special needs" children, it depends on the meaning of 
"special needs." If a child is incapable of learning, it seems unfair 
to put them in a class with normal kids.

[Arlo]
Agree. In many situations, "mainlining" the special needs child 
serves only to let the parents pretend their child is "the same as 
all the other kids". Like "difficult kids", special needs students 
should be evaluated on an individual basis. Many can (and should) be 
mainlined. They are given the benefit of supportive peer activity, 
and the "normal" kids learn empathy and respect for people who may 
have some form of "disability". (By the way, for this same reason I 
have long argued for bringing senior citizens in as classroom 
volunteers. Not only do the kids glean the wisdom of those who've 
"been there", but they learn respect, and society stops treating its 
elderly like an eyesore.)

[Mati]
Platt list of advantages are interesting but suggest that all student 
are college bound. Public schools must mirror the needs of society as 
a whole as it has done for the past 200 years.

[Arlo]
Spot on, Mati. Public schools must serve the vocational, industrial 
and service needs of society. At present, most schools regard these 
tracks as "loser tracks", for the kids who are "not smart enough" to 
be in college preparatory tracks. Not only does this overinflate the 
freshman ranks of colleges with kids who have no idea why they are 
there, and who often lack the aptitude for these programs, but it 
robs the vocational (etc) fields from highly qualified, skilled 
people. This whole "blue/white collar" artificial dichotomy must be 
done away with. There is no "shame", nor any less value, in being a 
mechanic or a bricklayer or a chef than being a biologist or a 
journalist or a mathematician.

Brian: Did you know without trigonometry, there'd be no engineering?
Bender: Without lamps, there'd be no light.

[Mati]
I have met so many parents over the years that work hours on end with 
their children and the schools to make a real difference in their 
child's life and education.  Schools I believe are a real reflection 
of community they exist in.

[Arlo]
Again, spot on.

[Platt]
Equally important is a culture that stimulates and rewards a work 
ethic as was prevalent in the Victorian era and is today still strong 
in certain ethnic groups like Asians and Jews.

[Arlo]
I'm not sure I want a reward structure based on the Victorian model. 
The great majority labored incessantly and were "rewarded" only with 
being treated like chattel. They labored because they believed in 
rhetoric they soon found to be false, and instantiated something "better".

The "work ethic" of the Asians and Jews, if such a simplistic 
statement is even possible, derives from the family _and_ community 
oriented centers of these cultures.

[Platt]
Our culture to its detriment has become "compassionate" in this 
regard, considering it "fair" to reward everyone equally regardless 
of achievement and beating up on the "rich" as being undeserved of 
their wealth.

[Arlo]
Or beating up the "poor" as been slothful, lazy low-lifes.

[Mati]
Personally from my perspective as a school leader it is vital to 
build a strong social foundation of tradition in which intellect is 
valued and fostered.

[Arlo]
Absolutely. Community and social foundation matters.

[Platt]
A society (culture) that values the individual and supports her 
effort to be all she can be is one that fits the MOQ to a T. (IMHO)

[Arlo]
Like providing public libraries and public education, so that the 
"poor" individual can be all she can be.