[MD] Alternatives to the scientific method

Wed Aug 1 02:18:47 PDT 2007

Hi Ian

I was, but then I realised it was an unfair one. 
Platt (I think) pointed to the 1st result returned from google, which made me laugh but as you can see from what's now kicked off, the people on the site are intelligent and prepared to stand by their site despite its intended target audience. I have therefore retreated from abusing Platts referencing skills and instead am using the link as a ready made pool of scientists from whom to canvas opinion.

With a little prompting its taking on a life of its own, not sure what the schoolkids reading will make of it though:

http://www.sciencebuddies.org/mentoring/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=11096#11096

Jos

> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of ian
> glendinning
> Sent: 31 July 2007 17:35
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Alternatives to the scientific method
> 
> 
> No argument the "science buddies" responses so far are, errr,
> "interesting" - but I thought you were making a point about
> science-buddies.
> 
> I thought in the Ham / Platt / Jos / me / SA / Ron / etc discussion we
> didn't actually have significant (subtle) differences on that score
> ... gimme an example ... or point at an earlier mail ...
> 
> I repeat my point that the differences seem to become definitional,
> about the boundaries we presume for science itself .... rather than
> what "basic empricism" is within it .... but I'm open to be corrected.
> 
> Ian
> 
> On 7/31/07, Laycock, Jos (OSPT) <Jos.Laycock at offsol.gsi.gov.uk> wrote:
> > I also think its clear, and so does Platt, and all three 
> have subtly different interpretations.
> > What do you make of the comment from random scientist number 1 then?
> > Seemed a lot like "we all know what it is but cant define 
> it" to me, which is a lot like saying "we dont really want to 
> look to carefully in case we all didn't mean the same thing 
> after all".
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> > > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of ian
> > > glendinning
> > > Sent: 31 July 2007 16:46
> > > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > > Subject: Re: [MD] Alternatives to the scientific method
> > >
> > >
> > > This thread has legs !
> > >
> > > Are we really debating "what" the scientific method is ?
> > > I though the 1,2,3,4 numbers game was pretty clear (inlcuding
> > > falsifiable hypotheis and repeatable experiment). This "basic
> > > empiricism" IS the established scientific method. The 
> debate is surely
> > > about where the boundaries are to a method like this arriving at
> > > "truth" ... and alternatives as we approach / breach 
> those boundaries.
> > > When should we stop calling it science, or where should 
> we stretch the
> > > defintion of science, at its philosophical / metaphysical 
> boundaries.
> > >
> > > I'm going to have to go back through earlier responses / 
> references.
> > > Ian
> > >
> > > On 7/31/07, Laycock, Jos (OSPT) 
> <Jos.Laycock at offsol.gsi.gov.uk> wrote:
> > > > That is what I am attempting to discover!
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> > > > > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of
> > > > > pholden at davtv.com
> > > > > Sent: 31 July 2007 16:13
> > > > > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > > > > Subject: Re: [MD] Alternatives to the scientific method
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Quoting "Laycock, Jos (OSPT)" <Jos.Laycock at OFFSOL.GSI.GOV.UK>:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Ok so Kepler says we must measure things, but I can measure
> > > > > anything I like!
> > > > >
> > > > > Not if your goal is to follow the scientific method of
> > > > > replicating an experiment.
> > > > > You must measure what the original experimenter measured.
> > > > >
> > > > > > I may be open then to criticisms of the quality of my
> > > > > measurements, but thats a
> > > > > > different story. My answers will keep changing, but thats
> > > > > no different from trying
> > > > > > to measure the position of a particle, each time you ask
> > > > > the question the
> > > > > > situation is changed, so you cant perform the same
> > > experiment twice.
> > > > >
> > > > > As I understand it, measuring quantum particles is done
> > > > > mathematically using
> > > > > certain formulas. See:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measurement_in_quantum_mechanics
> > > > >
> > > > > > Repeatability
> > > > > > is context dependent, and varies in its impact on the
> > > > > quality of the data.
> > > > >
> > > > > Is not repeatability essential to the scientific method?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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