[MD] Alternatives to the scientific method

[ian glendinning]

Jeez Platt, have you heard nothing of evolution since Darwin ? More
than a century of evidence ... he chose his language and metaphors for
his audience at the time.

Anyway, you are interpreting one sentence, which is open to other
interpretations than the purely linguistic allusions your analysis
suggests. Struggle yes, survival yes, in the face of "scarce
resources" of various kinds, but struggle can be overcome by reducing
barriers and dependencies, as well as brute force.

Your "sound-bite" simplification is misleading. These are "powerful"
processes yes, but they do not have to exert physical power - subtley,
guile, creativity, keeping a low-profile, quid-pro-quo, collaborative
/ co-evolution / symbiosis,  will do just as well .... to start making
any sense of examples, you need to separate the genomes (and memes)
from the host phenotypes - the "selfish" application of force
generally has little to do with the individuals of the species
exerting force. This was Dawkins point but like Darwin's "Survival of
the Fittest", his "Selfish Gene" sound-bite get's mis-used with
minimal understanding.

Have you read Dennett's "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" (for example). If
you haven't it would be a good place to start - he's a good writer for
the lay reader (like me) and meticulously balanced in acknowledging
the alternative views of those who would disagree with him on many
points - like Gould, Lewontin and others ... Dawkins writing is too
sure of itself IMHO, and your rhetoric would chop his down at the
knees in five minutes. ;-) The levels of disagreement are however many
levels below these sound-bite headlines. The agreement is overwhelming
at most levels we are discussing here.

Variety (eco-diversity) is the spice of life.
Ian

On 8/13/07, pholden at davtv.com <pholden at davtv.com> wrote:
> Quoting ian glendinning <psybertron at gmail.com>:
>
>
> > Platt, survival of the fittest has nothing to do with "ruthless
> > control". Fitness is about best quality of "fit" with environmental
> > opportunities, ruthlessly defeating your opponents (directly or in
> > control of resources) is only one aspect in only some cases. Fitness
> > is about fitting, not the power of being fit.
>
> >From Charles Darwin: "In the survival of favoured individuals and races, during
> the constantly-recurring struggle for existence, we see a powerful and ever-acting
> form of selection."
>
> "Struggle" sounds like using "power" to me. "Struggle" also suggests action in
> an attempt to ruthlessly control a situation to assure a positive outcome, by
> whatever means available. Do you have evidence that evolution operates otherwise?
>
> Thanks.
> Platt
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
> Moq_Discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>