[MD] Alternatives approaches to evolution

[ian glendinning]

Hi SA, (and David M)

By "selection" I simply meant the living processes by which things
either survive and prosper or fail and become extinct. (I wasn't
presuming any specific processes genetic or otherwise, or any of the
vast range of competitive, symbiotic, parastitic, co-evolutionary
situations, "good tricks" or any other you can think of - cui-bono ?)
David's question was about the processes by which the variety itself
arises (to be selected) - he says he was playing devil's advocate, I
guess to raise the debate about "random" as sufficient explanation.
One word can never be sufficient explanation. (As you note quoting
Gould however, whatever is selected has to have arisen to be selected
in the first place.)

Not sure I want to get into the quantum (or other mysterious)
interconnectedness across the universe here ... really a separate
subject ... but yes I am saying that natural patterns (the kind that
MoQ can explain) affect both the processes of how the variety arises
and the processes how it is selected - there are many kinds of both
patterns and "random" doesn't do justice as sufficient explanation. So
again yes, by and large, processes involving patterns give rise to new
patterns, etc.

Ian

On 8/16/07, Heather Perella <spiritualadirondack at yahoo.com> wrote:
>     [Ian]
> > More common-sensically, selection can only happen
> > from the variety
> > that actually arises, not an infinity at any one
> > time.
>
>     What kind of selection?  If we are taking about
> the organic, natural selection, then I've heard of
> neutral genes that are NOT within the scope of
> selection.  Selection works between 'things' that can
> be selected.  I'm not an expert on this topic, but
> from reading Gould, this is basically his summary
> view.  As to selection involving quantum level to
> further organization upon the inorganic level, where
> and how selection would work is not a topic.
> Selection is not organized upon this level, thus, not
> a force on this level.  It's as if a comet flying by
> in another galaxy is directly involved with me
> spilling my coffee as I drive the vehicle on the
> bumping road here.
>
>
>     [Ian]
> > There are many mechanisms by which the available
> possibilities can
> > be realized - some essentially the classic "random
> genetic
> > mutations"
>
>     This is another way.
>
>     [Ian]
> > - but many environmental physio-chemical influences
> on cells
> > (and their other components and assemblies) to pick
> up on your
> > other point, and tendencies for certain patterns of
> change to arise
> > more regularly because of the existence of the
> patterns of value in
> > nature (at all levels too) .... a whole wealth of
> neo-Darwinian work.
>
>     Are you pointing out how certain patterns
> organize?  Thus, change or influence into larger
> patterns of organization?  By larger I do mean
> quantatively.
>
>
> SA
>
>
>
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