[MD] Pirsig the Prophet

[pholden at davtv.com]

Quoting MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net>:


> > > Platt,
> > >
> > > A free enterprise might promote something
> > > dynamic, but it does not help youngster develop
> > > high values.  When Chris asked Phædrus what he
> > > should be when he grew up, he was told honest,
> > > not an entrepreneur.

[Marsha]
> >I disagree. In a free market a dishonest entrenpreneur won't last long. "You
> >can fool some of people some of the time . . ." etc. Anyway, who do you think
> >makes motorcycles? And paints? And brushes? And canvases?

> Free markets are like unicorns, they don't 
> exist.

Compared to socialist/communist countries, free markets do exist.

> A dishonest entrepreneur can last a very 
> long time.

Not in a competitive free market.

> And dishonest people in corporations 
> have done big-time damage to tens-of-thousands of 
> people.

Nothing compared to what governments have done to damage people. 

> I would prefer my motorcycles, paints, 
> brushes and canvases be made by artists.

Plenty of "artists" in corporations who make motorcycles, paints, brushes and
canvases. I get my art supplies from "Cheap Joe's," a quintessential capitalist
entrepreneur.

> > > Your point-of-view is so
> > > entangled with economics that you don't seem to
> > > be able to see the forest for the trees.
> >
> >How so?
> 
> Economics is like a religion of money.  You were 
> indoctrinated when a young boy, and that 
> point-of-view has been reinforced ever since.  If 
> that is not true, give me some alternative 
> suggestions to what might hold a people together and bring them contentment.

To be free to exchange goods and services in a free society is the best arrangement
for life and living I can imagine. What is your alternative?.

> > > I think
> > > self-respect, self-esteem and self-discipline
> > > should taught.
> >
> >Self-esteem and self-respect come from achievement.
> 
> Might self-esteem and self-respect come knowing 
> you have value?  Or from knowing you are a part of a world that has value?

Self-value comes from self-achievement. Just knowing the world has value doesn't
do much for your self-esteem. 

> > > And if you possess those factors,
> > > you will see them in others.  It's time to move
> > > beyond considering consumerism as the primary force in the world.
> >
> >I prefer consumerism as a force rather than government as a force. Don't you?
> 
> I'm not too keen on either of those two 
> choices.  I prefer sailing or gardening to both.

Have you bought anything in order to be able to sail or to garden? If you have,
I've made my point.

> > > And I don't think I might be wrong.
> >
> >I think you might be.
> 
> No, no.

Yes, yes.

Platt





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