[MD] subject/object: pragmatism

[MarshaV]

David,

Great post!!!

Marsha


At 11:12 PM 12/4/2007, you wrote:

>Ham said:
>Coming into being presupposes a primary cause or source.
>
>dmb says:
>Does it? Why?
>
>I think you're only saying that creatures presuppose a creator. As I 
>understand it, this quasi-theological nonsense grows out of the 
>nature of our language, where we say trees are made of wood and 
>mountains are made of rock, which implies a maker. But trees aren't 
>made of wood. They ARE wood and they weren't made. They just grow. 
>Mountains ARE rock and come into being on their own account. The 
>idea of a maker is called something like "the ceremanic paradigm" 
>and is common to all the early civilizations. You know, clay is 
>shapeless and soft until its formed into something useful and fired 
>in a furnace. The universal use of this technology and the structure 
>of our languages (and who knows what else) has combined to make us 
>suppose there's some divine potter behind it all. But still, its 
>nonsense. From an empirical perspective, I can't think of a single 
>reason to believe there is such a thing as a primary cause.
>
>Why do you suppose it is presupposed by things coming to be? Isn't 
>that based on the assumption that the universe is shapeless and 
>dumb, like clay?
>
>Thanks.
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