[MD] subject/object: pragmatism

[MarshaV]

Hi Arlo,

To pay too much attention to this election cycle, is to induce vomiting.

Marsha


At 12:39 AM 12/7/2007, you wrote:
>[Marsha to Ham] It rather amuses me that when 
>you get into a corner, you drag out the word 
>nihilism.  Can you not deal with the concept 
>'unknown'? [Arlo] Mitt Romney: "Freedom requires 
>religion". It's the biggest myth of the day. And 
>one prime on the neocon agenda. You ask why Ham 
>resorts to the tired "nihilism"-bugaboo, and I 
>recall these words from "The Power of 
>Nightmare". "[Strauss believed] Western 
>liberalism led to nihilism, and had undergone a 
>development at the end of which it could no 
>longer define itself or defend itself. A 
>development which took everything praiseworthy 
>and admirable out of human beings, and made us 
>into dwarf animals. Made us into herd 
>animals—sick little dwarves, satisfied with a 
>dangerous life in which nothing is true and 
>everything is permitted. Strauss believed that 
>the liberal idea of individual freedom led 
>people to question everything—all values, all 
>moral  truths. Instead, people were led by their 
>own selfish desires. And this threatened to tear 
>apart the shared values which held society 
>together. But there was a way to stop this, 
>Strauss believed. It was for politicians to 
>assert powerful and inspiring myths that 
>everyone could believe in. They might not be 
>true, but they were necessary illusions. One of 
>these was religion; the other was the myth of 
>the nation." And whether you hear this echoed in 
>the pandering-but-moronic statements of a 
>presidential candidate, or in the "barbarians at 
>the gate" rhetoric of those who feel man needs 
>some "intelligent designer" lest he be amoral 
>and beastly, its the same core principle. It has 
>its foundations in the "guilty at birth" 
>rhetoric of the "Judeo-Christian" code, that has 
>us all born evil and sinful, and in need of the 
>power of some outside agent to cleanse us and 
>make us Good. And in the sophmoric "analysis" of 
>Bill O'Reily whose "culture war" consists of 
>noble and good "religious traditionalists" 
>battling immoral and evil "secular 
>progressives", the same sad rhetoric is doled 
>out for hours a day. The only "culture" brought 
>historically by "religious traditionalists" is 
>the oppressive and enslaving bounds of 
>theocracy. Want to know what life under 
>"religious traditionalist" rule would be like, 
>witness our own European history prior to the 
>Enlightenment. Sadly, were there more "secular 
>progressives" in the middle eastern nations 
>perhaps they impetus towards democracy would be 
>greater. But telling people they are evil beasts 
>who need to be saved by The Creator in order to 
>be moral and righteous serves the power desires 
>of our modern day leaders, and it (as Strauss 
>saw) gives people the go-ahead to feel smug and 
>superior while they behave like sheep. The 
>irony, of course, is that O'Reily's "culture 
>war" is the terra firma of the justification 
>among "Islamofascists" to denounce Western life. 
>Honestly, if you had to pick a side in the 
>"culture war" that the "Islamofascists" would 
>back, do you think it would be the "secular 
>progressives"? Hell no. Here is another snippet 
>from the Power of Nightmare. "But Qutb saw 
>something else: the dancers in front of him were 
>tragic lost souls. They believed that they were 
>free. But in reality, they were trapped by their 
>own selfish and greedy desires. American society 
>was not going forwards; it was taking people 
>backwards. They were becoming isolated beings, 
>driven by primitive animal forces. Such 
>creatures, Qutb believed, could corrode the very 
>bonds that held society together. And he became 
>determined that night to prevent this culture of 
>selfish individualism taking over his own 
>country." Ask youself, who does that sound like? 
>Who among us decries a culture pushing us to be 
>"primitive animals"? And who offers the solution 
>of providing a "religious traditionalist" 
>government/culture  that "would provide a moral 
>framework that would stop people’s selfish 
>desires from overwhelming them."? (The quote, 
>btw, is how Qutb described the Islamic-led 
>government). "People need 'powerful myths', 
>primarily 'god' and 'the nation'". Seems Sayyed 
>Qutb would be very happy to hear someone in the 
>"secularly degenerate" West say "freedom 
>requires religion", and join forces in the 
>"culture war" that pits the vile, corrupt 
>"nihilists" against the Ardent Light of the 
>Religious Traditionalist. ============= As a 
>postscript here, I find it funny that we 
>suddenly have a flock of candidates (both sides) 
>who are tripping over themselves arguing about 
>who is the biggest Christian. Reminds me of the 
>Four Yorkshiremen skit of Monty Python (with 
>apologies)... "Why I remember all the days I 
>worshipped God in our church." "Church? Why we 
>used to worship God in our living room, and 
>serve him tea and crumpets!" "Crumpets?! Why God 
>used to come over to our house, sit down, put 
>his feet by the fire, and we'd serve him the 
>finest meals while we ate cardboard." "Feed him? 
>Why I remember fondly the nights God would come 
>over and sleep in our beds." "Sleep? We used to 
>let God have his way with us." "Oh sure, that's 
>great if you think passive worship is best. We, 
>on the other hand, would service god rather than 
>be serviced, if you catch my drift." "Once a 
>night?" "Aye." "Ha! We used to service God three 
>times a day and then beat ourselves with hair 
>whips to pass the hours until we could service 
>him again." "Just three? Five times a day we'd 
>whack off the almighty, while a flock of demons 
>shredded our backs with sandpaper. Afterwards 
>he'd kill us, just for fun, and the resurrect us 
>in time to service him again." "I would have 
>loved to have just been killed in between. Six 
>times a day we'd give the almighty a hot oil 
>rubdown, with release, and in between he'd toss 
>our souls into a pool of molten lead and laugh 
>as we melted into the fire." "Right. After 
>performing oral sex on the lord, every hour on 
>the hour, I'd praise his divine being while he 
>tossed my sinful soul into a pit filled with 
>fire and starving rats. Then, he'd resurrect me 
>as various farm animals and it would start all 
>over." "Ah, but we love the lord." "Try telling 
>that to nihilists today... they won't believe 
>you!" "They won't!" Moq_Discuss mailing list 
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