[MD] subject/object: pragmatism

[David M]

Hi DMB

You use the metaphor of shaping clay.

Interesting, but can we say more about how MOQ gives account
whereas SOM does not? And does shaping work as a metaphor?
Is there anything that is shaped?

David M

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "david buchanan" <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:12 AM
Subject: Re: [MD] subject/object: pragmatism


>
> Ham said:
> Coming into being presupposes a primary cause or source.
>
> dmb says:
> Does it? Why?
>
> I think you're only saying that creatures presuppose a creator. As I 
> understand it, this quasi-theological nonsense grows out of the nature of 
> our language, where we say trees are made of wood and mountains are made 
> of rock, which implies a maker. But trees aren't made of wood. They ARE 
> wood and they weren't made. They just grow. Mountains ARE rock and come 
> into being on their own account. The idea of a maker is called something 
> like "the ceremanic paradigm" and is common to all the early 
> civilizations. You know, clay is shapeless and soft until its formed into 
> something useful and fired in a furnace. The universal use of this 
> technology and the structure of our languages (and who knows what else) 
> has combined to make us suppose there's some divine potter behind it all. 
> But still, its nonsense. From an empirical perspective, I can't think of a 
> single reason to believe there is such a thing as a primary cause.
>
> Why do you suppose it is presupposed by things coming to be? Isn't that 
> based on the assumption that the universe is shapeless and dumb, like 
> clay?
>
> Thanks.
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