[MD] Lilith/Lila

[MarshaV]

SA,

This post has caused a volcanic tremor within the 
marrow of my bones.  There are ten-thousand 
voices wanting to be heard.  If I may paraphrase 
for all those voices.  I heard recently that the 
Koran states that it is better to be born a 
donkey than a woman.  These voices shout loudly 
'MAN IS A JACKASS!!!'   Having said that I want 
you to know I LOVE men (and Siegfried in particular).

I recently suggested you read Besserman's 'A New 
Zen for Women'.  You dismissed it for another 
day.  Why, probably because it is written by a 
woman about a woman's experience?  Most books are 
written by men, or for men, or by women using a 
man's voice.  This book seems authentic writing 
of a woman's experience.  Bravo to Ms. Besserman 
for trying to be honest!  Again, I suggest you read this book.

I know Lila and Lilith.  I know Erda, Isis, 
Astarte, Diana, Hecate, Demeter, Kali, 
Inanna,  etc., etc., etc.  They are buried alive in my bone marrow.

It's not that I wouldn't like to continue this 
discussion.  I would.  I just don't think we have 
any shared experience which would make it meaningful.

Marsha





At 12:21 AM 12/23/2007, you wrote:
>Marsha,
>
>      Marsha, I wonder about this depiction of females
>of evil, too, and I found two depictions (a more
>positive one and a more negative one) of Lila:  one
>'western' (more negative) and one Sanskrit/Hindu (more
>positive).  Have you or anybody else come across this
>before?  I'll explain what I came across as follows:
>
>
>     Here is an interesting trace of a woman named
>Lilith or Lila that goes way back to Sumer and
>scholars note this mythological story must have even
>deeper historical/prehistorical roots.  I also find
>Goethe wrote about her, the Grecro-Roman mythology,
>Arabic mythology, etc...
>     Two internet sources depict how Lilith or Lila is
>understood within the same Indo-European language,
>yet, a seeming divergence took place somewhere and
>Sanskrit depicts Lila in a more positive light and the
>'western' version has Lila in a more negative light.
>Here are the two links as follows:
>
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lilith
>
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lila
>
>
>     Note, in the links above, Lilith is the 'western'
>version.
>     Lila is the Sanskrit version.  Within the Lilith
>link above the Etymology of Lilith includes Lila.
>
>     The rest of this post are describes some of what I
>read so far, what lead me to search Lilith, and some
>thoughts that stirred due to what has become
>fascinatingly connective to the book Lila by Pirsig.
>     I was watching the History Channel on TV about
>books of the bible that are not in the bible.  On this
>show, Lilith was described and the commentators also
>mentioned that Lilith means Lila.
>      The bible has two creation stories in Genesis.
>Rabbi's associate the first woman who was created by
>G-d with man (as opposed to the second woman who was
>created from Adam's rib) was a woman equal to man (see
>quote below).  This woman created from G-d just as
>Adam was created from G-d is named Lilith.  Her name
>does not show up in the King James Version of the
>bible until the book of Isaiah, but Rabbi's associate
>Lilith with this first woman created before the second
>woman named Eve.  Keep in mind, this first woman was
>equal and meant equality to Adam, until Adam wanted to
>subdue her, she refused this dominating act of Adam,
>and then in turn refused the garden of Eden and left.
>After leaving the garden, this is when negative
>connotations are associated with Lilith/Lila in the
>'western' versions.
>     So, I looked up Lilith and found a wikpedia
>reference to her (see above).  She is socially seen as
>a prostitute corrupting society, biologically she
>seduces young males at night (wet-dreams) and may kill
>babies at night, she is also referred to as the night
>or the wind, she leads one away from understanding,
>and she is seen as a demon, thus, is in the mystical
>world, too.  This is one quote as follows from
>wiki/Lilith:
>
>      "However, what this association does not take
>into account are additional descriptions of the
>"Seductress" from Qumran that cannot be found
>attributed to the "strange woman" of Proverbs; namely,
>her horns and her wings: "a multitude of sins is in
>her wings." The woman illustrated in Proverbs is
>without question a prostitute, or at the very least,
>the representation of one, and the sort of individual
>with whom that text’s community would have been
>familiar. The "Seductress" of the Qumran text,
>conversely, could not possibly have represented an
>existent social threat given the constraints of this
>particular ascetic community. Instead, the Qumran text
>utilizes the imagery of Proverbs to explicate a much
>broader, supernatural threat ­ the threat of the
>demoness Lilith."
>
>
>      Notice, Lilith if not on the "community" level or
>seen not as a "social threat", she turns up in those
>communities as a "supernatural threat".
>
>
>      What's also interesting is that this 'western'
>approach to Lila/Lilith is in a more negative light,
>whereas the kin Indo-European language of these
>'western' versions known as Sanskrit and found in the
>Hindu religion applies Lila in a more positive light.
>
>      Here is another quote from wiki/Lilith where
>Lilith/Lila is perceived more positively, but also
>shows how this more positive light turns seemingly
>negative as follows:
>
>
>     "After God created Adam, who was alone, He said,
>'It is not good for man to be alone.' He then created
>a woman for Adam, from the earth, as He had created
>Adam himself, and called her Lilith. Adam and Lilith
>immediately began to fight. She said, 'I will not lie
>below,' and he said, 'I will not lie beneath you, but
>only on top. For you are fit only to be in the bottom
>position, while I am to be the superior one.' Lilith
>responded, 'We are equal to each other inasmuch as we
>were both created from the earth.' But they would not
>listen to one another. When Lilith saw this, she
>pronounced the Ineffable Name and flew away into the
>air."
>
>
>      Did anybody comes across this before?  I know on
>the "Lila" link given above, Pirsig is mentioned as
>well as others such as Joseph Campbell, Heinrich
>Zimmer, Fritjof Capra, and Alan Watts, to name some.
>
>
>night woods,
>SA
>
>
> 
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