[MD] The Anti-entropic Miopic

[Case]

Mark 02-02-07: Hi Case.
It seems to me this is what you ARE suggesting: Life is reducible to  
chemistry and physics.
Case is chemistry and physics.

[Case]
Case is chemistry and physics and family and friends and work and play and
all kinds of relationships. Ultimately they all reduce physics but with each
level of reduction something is lost. What is lost is all of the nifty new
relationships acquired as each new level emerged from the ones below that.
 
Mark 02-02-07:
How can X co-operate with Y if X = Y?

[Case]
What is that supposed to mean?

Mark: 4. Therefore, biological  life does not obey entropy.
Case: 4c. Find me a serious biologist who claims  that biology violates any
of the laws of thermodynamics.
 
Mark 02-02-07:
One who believes in evolution may?

[Case]
No, I said name one. Any one will do. We are looking for a biologist who
claims that biology violates any of the laws of thermodynamics.

[Mark]
Life evolves and grows in complexity.
If entropy is a measure of a system's tendency to lose complexity then it's
pretty clear biological evolution is defying entropy by definition.
Chemicals don't spontaneously form Case, they need millions of years to do
it.
On the other hand, place Case, stark buck bollocks naked out in the Sun with
no food or water for a few weeks and he's going to end up whiffing a bit.

[Case]
Entropy is not a measurement of complexity it is a measurement of energy
dissipating. Energy neither increases nor decreases it just changes form. 

I have mentioned several times how inappropriate Pirsig's tale of people
left on rocks is. Now you cite it back to me?

Chemicals do spontaneous produce life forms. That is what biology is all
about. But it really would help if you had the faintest clue what you were
talking about.

Mark: 01-02-07:
If energy may be  said to be evolving, then it is evolving into structured  
states which  resist entropy. But that's what life is, (thanks to Carbon  
chemistry)  and it's what distinguishes it from the inorganic.

[Case]
Energy is just changing forms. There is no direction or goal to it. Carbon
is important to us because it can form more kinds of relationships than
other molecules. Water is similarly important. Both work their magic here on
earth because the sun provides a constant supply of energy to transform
them.

Mark 02-02-07:
So, Case IS chemistry and physics.

[Case]
Yes Case IS chemistry and physics and biology and society and psychology and
lots of fun a the right sort of parties.

07-02-01: Case:
The giant whirlpool part makes me uneasy but most  or less. However, I do
not see how this contradicts the moq.
 
Mark 02-02-07:
I'm not surprised it makes you uneasy.
You've just replaced all the biologists in class with chemistry and physics
professors.
"Today kids we're going to talk about this chemical compound," indicates the
professor pointing to a vast molecule on the blackboard.
"Excuse me sir"? interjects a tentative voice,
"But isn't that a Lion sir"?
"You won't pass your chemistry exam using short cuts like that Case," smiles
the kindly yet weary tutor.
"This molecule is called, Pancarbonichydrogenicoxythermic...."
(30 minutes later)
"...protoacid."
"Pardon sir?"

[Case]
I merely thought the whirlpool was a bit simplistic. Whirlpools, fire,
currents, crystals, radioactive elements are all matter responding to
energy. So is life. But what ever the above is supposed to mean it does not
explain how anything I have said contradicts the moq.
 
Mark 02-02-07:
When you inform peoples like the beloved Skutvik one that you don't adhere  
to a conventional moq you certainly mean it don't you?
sq patterns are dharmic ethical principles undergoing evolution toward  
higher states of Dynamism.
This includes basic inorganic elements.
The suggestion is this would be so even if there were no life forms.
You appear to be suggesting an existentialist notion that your being is  
prior to value.
As you now confirm:

[Case]
I do not give it a lot of thought but apparently my early exposure to
existentialism took hold. What you seem to propose as an alternative is hand
wringing and wishful thinking.