[MD] The Anti-entropic Miopic

[ian glendinning]

Case, gotcha now

Yes, the disorder is reversed only locally within the living /
intelligent sphere.

The "net result" (whatever that means) is almost certainly still
inexorably the other way. (I say whatever that means, because if
you're playing a numbers game, averaging entropy equally over all the
particles in the universe you are right, but I'm playing a quality
game, discounting lower quality patterns and premium accounting the
higher levels.)

(And don't scoff entirely at other "perpetual motion" like effects, as
yet un-explained ... there seem to be some electro-magnetic /
electro-chemical / low-energy-fusion effects being gradually exposed
to investigation ...)

There is no perpetual motion .... but there is plenty of unexplained physics.

(And finally BTW even if energy were limitless availability, there
would still be wars, for social control over it's supply and
distribution ... we still need to plan how to govern "utopia" -
intellectually.)

Ian

On 2/7/07, Case <Case at ispots.com> wrote:
> [Ian]
> That is the whole point about negative entropy. Low grade waste energy
> CAN be upgraded in to more useful stuff, but not by traditional
> "mechanical engineering".
>
> Think of this.
> Adult 1 builds power station.
> Power station loses waste heat in cooling water.
> Adult 2 farms bigger fish in the (warm) cooling water outlet pond.
> Child 3 eats more fish, grows an intellgent brain.
> Adult 3 designs and builds better power station.
> Ad infinitum ...
>
> You can do the same story starting with the warmth of the sun ... the
> original point in here somewhere.
>
> It's the biochemistry, life and intelligence that reverses the
> (otherwise natural) entropy gradient.
> Or am I missing your point. I joined this thread late, as I said ?
>
> [Case]
> In your example above energy in the form of waste heat is lost at every step
> in the process. You are merely describing successive transformations of
> energy into higher levels of organization. However with each transformation
> there is a net increase in disorder. Life is a process for using the
> existing energy efficiently but still net disorder increases. Life does not
> reverse the gradient it just allows more work to be done with the energy
> that is available.
>
> If it were in fact possible to reverse the gradient we would have perpetual
> motion machines. This would solve global warming, wars to save our oil
> supplies and all manner of social and political evils.
>
> moq_discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>