[MD] The MOQ for dummies.

[Heather Perella]

     [Bo]
> ...MOQ an intellectual pattern  - supposed to
improve that level - 
> makes it all nil and void.  A static level ca't be
improved, its value is > fixed - that's what "static"
means - and can only get more and more > complex until
it is so unstable that it spawns a new level.

     I disagree with this.  First off, static doesn't
mean fixed, as in NO change.  This is one of the
gumption traps called stuckness.  Dynamic quality
renews, fills with fresh air, and is creative, pick
your analogy, upon each static level.  This is how the
biological level has experienced new forms of life
known as evolution.  Societies are diverse, and well,
I think the intellectual level has changed as well.


     [SA previously]
> > So, would experience be this meta-level?

     [Bo]
> Experience tends to adjust itself to the reigning
> metaphysics.  Pirsig says something about seeing
ghosts or hearing
> voices is normal in some cultures (social
value-steeped ones)
> while absent in other (intellectual-steeped ones)   


     Ah, I know your position.  I see these cultures
as hearing and seeing these ghosts.  Pirsig calls
science and reason as ghosts, too.  

     [Bo] 
> Right, yours is the social experience and it FEELS
> good because it's undivided.

     I feel pain, too, FEELS meaning what?

     [Bo]
> Even if our western culture is intellect-dominated 
> and we are supposed to be objective - impartial -

     Impartial to what?

     [SA previously]
> > This is how I see stories, metaphors, or real life
> > experiences saying much more than just this and
> that.  We've got this whole world of feeling,
> perspective, and wind blowing. 

     [Bo] 
> Feelings or EMOTIONS is the social "expression" (I
> call).  SENSATION the biological one and REASON is
> intellect's expression.

     There is a reason why I feel this way. 
Social/environmental, ok, but I'm talking about an
experience that isn't all divided up, separated into
parts.  I am mindful of an experience.  So, where do
you start to divide? Seriously, do you place the knife
here or over-there?  Are there rules and where do they
come from?  Distinction is very intellectual, but so
is understanding that just cause it's distinct doesn't
mean its' in its' own little world.  Who decides where
the identity of something is finally distinct from
anything else?  Do you see parts of organisms or do
you notice whole organisms?  I am having difficulty
understanding how you do this dividing?

    [Bo]
> Yes, we are close to agreement, my last "but" is
> that we can't but interpret experience and that the
dynamic/static
> interpretation is better than the subject/object
one. The. static
> levels allow us to sort reason from emotion and
emotion from 
> sensation, this was/is just a porridge in SOM   

     Yes, but I haven't seen these levels dividing
into subjects and objects only.  I am one person with
these levels as me.  Who is this me?  I am not divided
up, I am this one person.

     [Bo]
> "The practical day to day philosophy of S/O" I
> agree. As said in the previous post:  
>     For all normal day-to-day purposes we apply
> S/O-intellect 
>     and speak about subject and object, mind and
> matter, 
>     mental and material ...etc, to our heart's
> delight, 

     I don't.  That's what I'm saying.  I don't go
around speaking like this.  At work, there is an us
(staff) and them (residents), but I can't ever escape
from them.  For one, we are in the same building. 
Secondly, we will experience the same situations,
though granted with different personal histories
interjecting, but even these different personal
histories come together at a point where staff and
residents 'collide' called the shared event.  This is
social, but intellectually I'm mindful of this event. 
Again, some more aware than others, experience is
factor in this, education just as well, but
intellectually we can all decipher that this social
event includes our perspectives.  We talk about the
event.  Our minds are either distracted or kept clear.
 The intellect is influenced by such factors.  I would
say our intellect is still letting us know what's
going on during the whole event.  The individual(s)
involved keep this event as not separated events, but
as one whole event.  My life keeps this together.  I
don't see gaps.

     [Bo] 
> The big deal is this: 
>     ...only when it comes to the "extremes" - i.e:
the
> ultimate metaphysical questions - the MOQ must be
applied.    

     I don't know what you mean about "extremes", or
ultimate metaphysical questions.  The MoQ is a living
philosophy.  Pirsig took a bike ride and a boat ride. 
These events tied together the whole philosophical
event.  The passages about his son, Lila, the current
in the harbor, all philosophical events.  We are
talking about reality here.  Reality is this snow,
this cup, and dq is a rock.


thanks.

SA


 
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