[MD] Mountain View

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Marsha

12 Feb. you wrote:

> RMP has defined the Intellectual Level as "the  collection and 
> manipulation of symbols, created in the brain, that stand for 
> patterns of experience."  (LC,p.64)  Intellect, on the other hand, "is
> simply thinking, and one can think without involving the
> subject-object relationship."  (LC,p.289)

> Is this wrong?  How would you define the Intellectual Level?  How are
> you defining intellect?   Compare and contrast everything with RMP's
> definition.

Yes it is wrong. This is merely a definition of language and 
language is not a level in the MOQ. There surely were language 
at the social level, and what's more, its an important tenet that 
the upper level is in permanent conflict with its parent level and 
that they mutually despise each other. But how can "manipulation 
of symbols" be offensive to social value? And how can intellect 
(defined that way) see social value as an hindrance for "symbol 
manipulation"? I see no such possibility.

The SOL interpretation defines the intellectual level as the 
subject/object distinction. This makes the emergence of SOM 
into the emergence of the intellectual level. This would 
harmonize ZMM and LILA (that now are worlds apart) and 
generally get all puzzle pieces to fall into pace. One example. It 
fullfills the said "level conflict" requirement. All intellectual 
patterns that Pirsig (correctly) lists as going against social value 
are S/O to the core, while "symbol manipulation" is totally absent. 
I won't push more on you but feel free to ask.  

> While my language has not yet evolved to reflect it, I do not think of
> the world being made up of subject&objects.    I think of the world as
> being value experiences and patterns of value experiences.

The world is NOT made up of subjects and objects - that's the 
very point - the world is made up of Dynamic and Static Quality. 
The subject/object make-up is how things look from intellects 
limited (static) view. 

> I do not
> believe RMP invented a new, great theory.  He has explained, using the
> MOQ, a revelation he experienced from his Mountain View.

I'll not make this a big deal of this, but if the SOL interpretation 
holds the plain below Pirsig's Peak is the previous S/O 
metaphysics (that so many are confined to) and that's pretty 
great.   

> Let's just see if a clarification of the definition of 'Intellectual
> Level' and 'intellect'  helps, because I am not seeing your problem. 
> But it could easily be my misunderstanding.

Good. let's see how it develops

Bo