[MD] science, religion and culture

[ian glendinning]

Nice thoughts Gav.

You said "Science v religion is not the war some think it is, most
times they both reinforce SOM"

I'd be interested how DMB sees that, because it's the point of mine
that he keeps disagreeing with me on very aggressive terms.

David M, I think I agree. Culture or religion, it does look like "we"
are sleepwalking into an abyss. The reason intelligent people are
interested in debate at all ? Maybe the trance-like state is a
necessary prequel to making MoQist progress ?

(BTW, excuse my laziness Gav, but when you come back to the "Giant"
story, would someone please remind me how Pirsig's Giant is
significantly different from the Leviathan ?)

Ian

On 12/31/06, gav <gav_gc at yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> hey all,
> the BIG problem with religion in the west is that it
> is divorced from the cultural landscape. well of
> course it is: the west has no real culture to speak
> of.
>
> as has happened in the US, australia and most
> everywhere else the God fearing white tosspots went,
> the indigenous cultures were suppressed,
> misunderstood, regarded as superstitious nonsense
> (this view was and is SHARED by the scientific and the
> theistic....my uncle is a catholic professor of
> physics at oxford. science v religion is not the war
> some think it is, most times they both reinforce SOM).
>
> culture is misuderstood by most whites. culture is
> rooted in place. culture is connection to place and to
> memory and the memory is in the place. without this
> there simply is no culture...no living culture.
>
> most whites probably think culture is opera or ballet
> or theatre etc when these are a *spectacular*
> experience (very SOM). the passive consumption of such
> stuff may still hold some vestigial mythopoetic power
> but it leads nowhere. it is a tease, a taster of
> something that once was our daily bread, wine and
> song...our very belongingness. now all we might feel
> is the poignancy of this loss, this absence... if we
> are alive enough and the art is good enough.
>
> if you have no connection to place, to the land, then
> you have no connection to each other and you have no
> culture. how to reconnect? face the shameful memories
> of our 'cultural' imperialism (oymoron if ever there
> was), atone and then learn from those we raped (in
> every sense of the word). we have to look at the world
> as it is, not as science or religion would have us
> look
> at it. we have to see with the heartmind not the head.
>
> good science and religion can take you to the brink of
> this departure point but they can do no more. leave
> them where they belong, in the rear. heart first, head
> second. who has fallen in love? really. such that
> absolutely nothing else matters save the adored one,
> the divine made flesh: the goddess incarnate. an
> absolutely brave and foolish act that is rewarded with
> the world: the living world. this love spills over as
> it is limitless. it spills over and renews and creates
> the world.
>
> science and religion are knock-offs; they are the
> readers digest of spiritual knowledge, which is to say
>  intellectual knowledge of the higest degree. i would
> rather concentrate on the original version before me:
> alive, terrible, beautiful, powerful, wise, loving and
> often hilarious. the living world is the most profound
> thing we can read. and if we don't then we lose, again
> and again...we lose that connection, that belonging,
> that matrix that holds us together in love and not
> fear: culture. for in its absence a more nefarious
> matrix is born: The Giant.......but that's a story for
> another time.
>
> best to you all
> gav
>
>
>
>
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