[MD] Food for Thought

[ian glendinning]

And Case, you've set my mind off ...

"Geometric" .. says it is an operator acting on itself ... recursion /
Hofstader territory - self-reflective consciousnes IS the
distinguishing feature of the cultural (3/4) level from the merely
biological / living (2) level.

It is the feature that enables symbolic manipulation etc ...

Back to work.
Ian

On 1/2/07, ian glendinning <psybertron at gmail.com> wrote:
> Case, the artificiality of tinkering with definitions .... I agree with you.
>
> I already accept the MoQ as a great model, I'm realy tinkering with my
> understanding and usage - ready for those dinner parties ;-). It's the
> dialogue that matters, the definitions are ultimately for dummies.
>
> I like your concept of "geometric" progression. The levels may not
> have clear objective dividing lines, distinctions, definitions,
> whatever, but some leaps are much more significant than simple
> "arithmetic" ones .... sounds like Kuhnian paradigms.
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
> On 1/1/07, Case <Case at ispots.com> wrote:
> > [Ian]
> > That's a recurring debate here, that one definition of intellect is
> > the ability to manipulate symbols. But I don't think it's good enough.
> > Once we move above level 2 (Life) to level 3/4 (Reflexive
> > consciousness, and symbol manipulation etc.) we have both social and
> > intellectual manipulation, and it's really culture that decides which
> > kind of manipulation is which. (As Arlo has clarified)
> >
> > [Case]
> > I think Arlo has done an outstanding job of tying up much of what is at
> > stake in the intellectual level. I would only say that the advent of written
> > language created a geometric progression in the expansion of knowledge. So
> > much so that in the present it is impossible to say what is social and what
> > is intellectual. The two are confounded to such a degree that separating
> > them can only be done by way of definition. We can say that Math is purely
> > intellectual while sitting around the diner table is social. But simply
> > labeling levels and tinkering with their definition seems wholly artificial
> > to me.
> >
> > moq_discuss mailing list
> > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> > Archives:
> > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
> >
>