[MD] Food for Thought

[ian glendinning]

HI DMB, inserted ... [IG] ...

On 1/5/07, david buchanan <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ian said DMB's suggestion ("social quality is aimed at controlling
> biological quality while intellect is aimed at controlling social quality"):
> Sounds promising - "aimed at controlling" is very close to the "imposition"
> aspect I summarised from what Arlo had already said. Is this your "principle
> of opposition" ?
>
> dmb says:
> Yes, that the prinicple of opposition. I don't know if Arlo's notion of
> "imposition" is the same or not. As far as I can tell, nobody has said
> anything about it yet.

[IG] Well here is your opportunity.

>
> Ian said:
> Do you see this as wholly satisfactory in distinguishing intellectual from
> social ? Could you elaborate on this, or point to somewhere where you
> believe you already have.
>
> dmb says:
> Wholly satisfactory? Sigh. I don't know what that means.

[IG] Oh come one. Do you find "intellect is aimed at controlling
social quality" as a resonably complete explanation for what
distinguishes intellect from social ?

 Its just an idea,
> the one Pirsig uses to make the distinction. This idea is elaborated upon
> quite a lot in Lila. The recent post to Arlo concerning the shaking of hands
> was one of many elaborations I supplied already. (In the post you've just
> responded to!) I've talked about this in terms of human rights and the laws
> against vice, in terms of the clash between democracy and fascism, between
> rationality and faith. I've elaborated until I'm blue in the face. This is
> why I have to turn the tables and ask, repeatedly, what it is you don't
> get...

[IG] I get the open hand-shake example. It's well document as a social
custom, with origins as you suggest. My request for elaboration is for
how you get from this social over biological example (which I buy
already) to anything equivalent for intellect over social, and when
you do, where the "control" asepct comes from.

My suggestion (summarising Arlo) is that any control aspect remains
essentially "social". I'll leave the rest until you come back on that
...

Regards
Ian