[MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)

[Arlo Bensinger]

[Arlo]
So while organization (or collective activity, or even 
"organisation"  :-)) on a lower level gives rise to upper level 
patterns, it is not a planned, deliberate activity to do so.

[Dave M]
how do you know that?

[Arlo]
Because, if for no other reason, proposing the reverse leads to a 
world  that does not jibe with experience.

 From LILA, "But it's as foolish to think of a city or a society as 
created by human bodies as it is to think of human bodies as a 
creation of the cells, or to think of cells as created by protein and 
DNA molecules, or to think of DNA as created by carbon and other 
inorganic atoms. If you follow that fallacy long enough you come out 
with the conclusion that individual electrons contain the 
intelligence needed to build New York City all by themselves. 
Absurd." (LILA, 217-218)

For a cell to conceive of a "brain", and conceive of its function, in 
order to design and build the brain, it would have to possess at 
least as equally a powerful "brain" to begin with.

In other words, to say "let's get together and form a brain that can 
manipulate complex symbols and engage in abstract thought", would 
require those individual cells to possess brains that can manipulate 
complex symbols and engage in abstract thought.

It would also require a cell to have an awareness of distance and 
motion beyond itself for a cell to conceive of, and design, "feet and 
legs", not to mention the ability to symbolically represent these 
processes and activities _before_ the brain and legs were designed.

Plus, are you suggesting that only past cells had this ability to 
preplan and create bodies according to some blueprint, but now modern 
cells are automated and don't? Or are you suggesting that each 
reproductive iteration involves groups of cells sitting around and 
deciding to "make on more like we've been" or "try something new"?

Finally, do you think the cells also predesign cities and buildings? 
Or did the cells just get together and decide to build a "human 
consciousness" but then have no control over what that 
"consciousness" does? If not, how were they able to plan on making 
something so complex?

To clarify, the cells each follow "what is best", and in doing so 
form collectives that function increasingly like "individuals" in 
their own right.