[MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)

[David M]

DMB

You are letting the fear of bogey men box you into
an intellectual straight jacket. It's sad. Ian is no
where near what you label him as being and
the fact that people with questionable motivation
are picking up certain legitimately critical ideas
does nothing to answer whether those critical ideas
are right or wrong. Don't ignore what might be useful
weapons just because your enemy is using them against
you. MOQ's ontological plualism opens doors that
a misguided approach to science tried to shut, be
careful you don't close them on yourself just to shut them on your
enemies.

David M



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "david buchanan" <dmbuchanan at hotmail.com>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)


> Ian said:
> I think we're mixing up "the argument from intelligent design" with the
> drivel of IDC "creationists".
>
> Arlo replied:
> According to Wikipedia, "Intelligent design (ID) is an argument that
> "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained 
> by
> an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as
> natural selection." ...
>
> dmb says:
> Thanks for the reality check here, Arlo. I think it is important to
> understand that "intelligent design" is just creationism in a tuxedo. It
> OUGHT to be identified with the drivel of the creationists and it seems to
> me that Ian has been decieved if he thinks otherwise. Not only is it a
> dishonest attempt to sneak theism in through the back door, it is also
> extemely weak as an argument. It is an argument that is easily defeated by
> its own logic. I mean, the the complexity of the universe is best 
> explained
> by an intelligent cause, then the complexity of the intelligent cause also
> needs a designer. And so does the designer of the designer and so on
> forever.
>
> Arlo also quoted this section of Wiki's article:
> "In a leaked memo, commonly known as The Wedge Document, however, the
> supporters of the movement were told, ...Design theory promises to reverse
> the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it 
> with
> a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions."
>
> dmb says:
> I would have thought their intentions would be obvious even without this
> leaked memo, but this leaves even less room for doubt. It shows that ID's
> defenders are much more interested in protecting their faith-based beliefs
> than they are in science. It also reveals their intellectual dishonesty, 
> no?
>
> Arlo said:
> "Intelligent design", at its core, implies an "intelligent designER". No?
>
> dmb says:
> Yes, of course. In fact, calling it an implication seems to be a bit of an
> understandment. ID says that the universe is so complicated that there 
> MUST
> be a Creator. That's the central point of their argument.
>
> Ian said:
> The argument is that, evolved, emerged design IS intelligent. The
> intelligent design IS the process of emergence, with no master plan or
> master intellect required or implied.
>
> dmb says:
> Well, that's just plain wrong. Isn't it? The idea of natural emergence 
> with
> no master intellect, a.k.a. natural selection, is exactly what ID is most
> interested in opposing. I mean, you're as incorrect as a guy could be 
> here,
> Ian. Its like a whole new level of wrong. Its astonishing, spectacular
> drivel! You taken this art to such heights that its become a form of
> entertainment. Congratulations.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> FREE online classifieds from Windows Live Expo - buy and sell with people
> you know
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://expo.live.com?s_cid=Hotmail_tagline_12/06
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


> moq_discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/