[MD] How are people controlled?

[ian glendinning]

David, Arlo,

I'm probably not gonna have much time to contribute to this, but I
believe this subject resolves to "quality systems of governance" and
is ultimately at the root of our intellect vs social distinction,
since any forms of "control" need to be bought into "intellectually"
by "society" (or culture) .... Catch 22

Socialisation of intellect.

Arlo, I completely agree with
"I would hope (and I truly believe) that the adoption of a metaphysics
(on a cultural scale) that recognizes Quality would lead us towards
what you imagine here. But until we lose the S/O dominance, the labor
alienation it induces [and a lot more besides] will likely not
change."

The reification of value as money, people as "human resources" etc, is
a major SOMist issue.
Ian

On 1/21/07, ARLO J BENSINGER JR <ajb102 at psu.edu> wrote:
> [Arlo]
> I no more prefer my life to be based on what Washington or Franklin "said" than
> on what Yahweh  or Jesus "said". We take the Good, scrap the bad, and move
> forward.
>
> [David M]
> Made me think about control. None of us want to be controlled. We want to make
> choices for ourselves. But how much choice do we have? Do we know what choices
> are available?
>
> [Arlo]
> This is a big problem. And I think a lot of it has to with social habituation.
> >From early on, as far down as elementary school, we begin shuffling people
> towards particular trajectories, and all the while reinforce expected behavior
> and outcomes. People learn to accept their lot in life. I also feel it stems
> from a lack of critical thinking, which is devalued and ignored (mostly) as a
> skill set. Until a problem can be understood, a solution can never be found.
> All to often, habituation leads to both diagnosis and solution. By fostering
> creativity and critical thinking from early on we can combat this in large
> degree.
>
> [David M]
> Take work. Most of us start out with only having our labour to sell. We take
> ourselves off to the labour market and see what there is to offer. We find an
> employer, offering some work we think we can do, we sign some contract, if
> there is anything in the contract we don't like we usually can't get it
> changed. Off to work we go, and find that the way the work is to be done is all
> set out for us, that there is a command structure to the form of organisation.
>
> [Arlo]
> What Marx wrote about labor alienation is particularly illuminating today. There
> is strong parallel between the dissonance revealed in modern labor in ZMM and
> the disjointedness Marx saw swelling from the implementation of industrial
> technology. While Marx lacked a language to see that the problem was the result
> of an S/O culture more than determined by technology, the way labor has been
> alienated reveals the depth of S/O dominance continuing through modern day.
>
> [David M]
> All very lacking in choice. Could we imagine better forms of organisation that
> were more flexible and recognising of the freedom of the individual? Should we
> not have to co-operatively negotiate every step in the process. What hours you
> work, where you work, how you do your work, what work is imprtant and needs
> doing, etc? Do most of our current social forms reflect force, control and
> bribery rather than choice?
>
> [Arlo]
> I would hope (and I truly believe) that the adoption of a metaphysics (on a
> cultural scale) that recognizes Quality would lead us towards what you imagine
> here. But until we lose the S/O dominance, the labor alienation it induces will
> likely not change. Some employers are starting to get it. Look at Google for
> example. Holy Cow! And Starbucks. But our markets today (overall) are not about
> people, they are about money, and people are just another commodity to be
> bought, sold and dispensed with to maximize profit. Its changing, but it'll
> pour like molasses until more people "see" Quality and stop seeing dollar
> signs.
>
>
> moq_discuss mailing list
> Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org
> Archives:
> http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/
> http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
>