[MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)

[pholden at davtv.com]

Quoting ARLO J BENSINGER JR <ajb102 at psu.edu>:

> [Platt]
> Are you now saying that the universe emerged from nothing and mind arises from
> no mind due to "spirit?"
> 
> [Arlo]
> The Universe, and mind, emerged from Quality interactions among individuals in
> increasingly complex collectives.

Where did such a system come from?

> [Platt]
> Just what are your "third and fourth possibilities?"
> 
> [Arlo]
> Again, you can easily read the archives to see what I, and Case much more
> thoroughly, have said.
> 
> [Platt]
> I've suggested two others besides God -- Quality and Consciousness.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Are Quality and Consciousness separate? Or is Quality conscious?

Consciousness is separate but related to Quality which, as you know, is 
direct experience.

> [Platt]
> You've said Quality, but then say it's a metaphor, meaning I presume, existing
> only in language.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Meaning "Quality", like any other attempt to understand the cosmos, is a
> metaphor. An analogy. Its just a damn good one. Best one so far, I'd say.

What about direct experience. Is that also a metaphor? 
 
> [Arlo previously]
> Despite Pirsig's depth of insight about Native American Indians, say anything
> about them and you get  the "dashed brains" retort and nothing else.
> 
> [Platt]
> A retort you conveniently ignore since it doesn't fit your worship of primitive
> Indian culture.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Again... I emphasize the PAGES and depth of Pirsig's insight, which extends far
> beyond this simply jib. And was selected by Pirsig, like Zen was in ZMM, for a
> reason. Second, to say this is parallel to me saying "Christian ethics allow
> burning women at the stake". 

Which you take great delight in emphasizing, among other horrors. Shall we
mention bloodbaths sponsored by atheists?

> [Platt]
> Why don't you outline the ZMM ethical system for us? We know from Pirsig's own
> words that that the system described in Lila called the MOQ found money an
> index of social quality.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Maybe you should read ZMM. Pirsig calls it "the path to enlightenment". I take
> it from that its worth the time. And maybe you'd learn a thing or two about
> Buddhism and the Tao. There is a reason why Pirsig founded a Zen Center in
> Minneapolis, after all.

Well, yes, but I thought we were talking about social ethics, not enlightenment.






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