[MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)

[David M]

Arlo/Platt

Of course, Nietzsche said that Christianity valued truth
and therefore possessed the seeds of its own overcoming.
Just a thought.

David M


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arlo Bensinger" <ajb102 at psu.edu>
To: <moq_discuss at moqtalk.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)


> [Arlo previously]
> In what Book does "God" give us "Freedom of the Press"? Where does he 
> give us "Freedom of Assembly"? Where "The Right to Bear Arms"?
> 
> [Platt]
> These are intellectual rights derived from Christian ethics and 
> enlightenment philosophy as interpreted by the Founding Fathers. I 
> think their interpretation is right on.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Give me a biblical quote or passage to show me where these "derive" 
> from Christian ethics. Give me any biblical support that these 
> "rights" come from Christian ethics and not exclusively from 
> enlightenment reason.
> 
> [Arlo previously]
> Where does "God", in the Bible, bestow "individual rights" on people? 
> What about non-believers? Certainly he does not give them "individual 
> rights" in the Old Testement. Does Jesus give pagans the "right 
> to  assembly" in the New somewhere that I missed?
> 
> [Platt]
> "Belief" is not a prerequisite for an individual to have the rights 
> to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Can you give me _ANY_ Biblical quote or passage to support this? Why, 
> if this is a "Christian ethic", did the Founders permit slavery?
> 
> [Platt]
> Do you believe such basic individuals rights are granted by men and 
> thus can be justifiably taken away by men? If so, that's scary. 
> Gulags cannot be far behind.
> 
> [Arlo]
> The fact that Gulags existed proves they can indeed be taken away by 
> men. The better question is "should they"? The answer is "no". A 
> society that grants these rights is more moral, because it maximizes 
> Dynamic Quality. By allowing your freedom, I support my own. Humanist 
> reason. Not Divine Mandate. By proposing that rights come from God, 
> and not men, can Witch Hunts, beheadings and the wholesale slaughter 
> of non-believers be far behind?
> 
> And let's talk some more about "Christian ethics". What about the 
> primary message of Christ (other than accepting Him as Savior)? This 
> could easily be restated "Feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, heal 
> the sick". Would you suggest our laws be based on these? Or, again, 
> do you pick and choose "Christian ethics" as it gives you power over 
> others, dismissing those ethics that would cause you to sacrifice?
> 
> 
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