[MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)

[pholden at davtv.com]

Quoting Arlo Bensinger <ajb102 at psu.edu>:

> [Arlo previously]
> In what Book does "God" give us "Freedom of the Press"? Where does he 
> give us "Freedom of Assembly"? Where "The Right to Bear Arms"?
> 
> [Platt]
> These are intellectual rights derived from Christian ethics and 
> enlightenment philosophy as interpreted by the Founding Fathers. I 
> think their interpretation is right on.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Give me a biblical quote or passage to show me where these "derive" 
> from Christian ethics. Give me any biblical support that these 
> "rights" come from Christian ethics and not exclusively from 
> enlightenment reason.

Sorry. I'm not a biblical scholar. However, if you read what the Founding
Fathers wrote, I think you'll find many references to God and the Christian
heritage.

> [Arlo previously]
> Where does "God", in the Bible, bestow "individual rights" on people? 
> What about non-believers? Certainly he does not give them "individual 
> rights" in the Old Testement. Does Jesus give pagans the "right 
> to  assembly" in the New somewhere that I missed?
> 
> [Platt]
> "Belief" is not a prerequisite for an individual to have the rights 
> to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Can you give me _ANY_ Biblical quote or passage to support this? Why, 
> if this is a "Christian ethic", did the Founders permit slavery?

Slavery was ended by those who believed in the Christian ethic. 

> [Platt]
> Do you believe such basic individuals rights are granted by men and 
> thus can be justifiably taken away by men? If so, that's scary. 
> Gulags cannot be far behind.
> 
> [Arlo]
> The fact that Gulags existed proves they can indeed be taken away by 
> men. The better question is "should they"? The answer is "no". A 
> society that grants these rights is more moral, because it maximizes 
> Dynamic Quality. By allowing your freedom, I support my own. Humanist 
> reason. Not Divine Mandate. By proposing that rights come from God, 
> and not men, can Witch Hunts, beheadings and the wholesale slaughter 
> of non-believers be far behind?

The right to life precludes beheadings and wholesale slaughter. Witch
hunts and slavery are a blight on American history, corrected by Christians. 
But what is the basis for freedom in the Humanist Manifesto? 

> And let's talk some more about "Christian ethics". What about the 
> primary message of Christ (other than accepting Him as Savior)? This 
> could easily be restated "Feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, heal 
> the sick". Would you suggest our laws be based on these? Or, again, 
> do you pick and choose "Christian ethics" as it gives you power over 
> others, dismissing those ethics that would cause you to sacrifice?

Those are all good things to do provided you don't force others to do them
and make recepients dependent on them, i.e., teach a man to fish. Jesus said
something about render unto Caesar the things that are his, and unto God
the things that are His, or words to that effect. Jesus was anything
but Marx. You'll not there is nothing in the Declaration or the Constitution
about rights that have to be provided by the forced labor of others such as food, 
shelter and health care. 


  



 


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