[MD] Gawain

[ian glendinning]

Hi Marsha, inserted ... (and SA response too)

On 1/23/07, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Ian,
>
> First, I feel as I do, and your comments gave me a low quality
> feeling.  It felt like a corporate-correct statement.
[IG] I certainly reduced your parable to a few very formal assertions.
(A terse summary to enable me to make my additional point, whilst
nevertheless appreciating yours in the first place - very entertaining
I already said, high value / quality I could have said.)

>
> Second, I think the parable was about life, not a relational data
> model.
[IG] Life, I agree. Not sure where you got the relational data model from ?

> I think Gawain knew the decision was not his to make.  Smart guy!
[IG] Agreed, that was apparent from reading the parable - your parable
gave the guy a choice (of two things) and instead he chose neither -
Smart guy, I say again.

>
> Maybe you would explain to me why you are so enamored with 'the
> middle way' and the 'excluded middle'?
[IG] It's not so much that I am "enamoured" with it (even though I am,
see later), but that I pointed out what your parable did - "give a guy
a choice of two and in real life a third option is best" (expressed
very tersely, your parable says it better - by definition - that's
what parables are for).

Why am I so enamoured with that parable - "give a guy a choice of two
and in real life a third option is best" - because in real life that
is so often the case. Your parable summed it up beautifully.

What was I trying to add to this, that confused SA ?
This thread is recursive (cyclical if you prefer) since ...
The choice offered (implicitly) is to choose to comment (on the choice
A or B) or not to comment; if I comment I have made one of the two
choices offered, (offended Marsha) and missed the third option (and
hence appear to miss the point of the original offer, which of course
I didn't miss). Making no comment is the other choice, but how would
anyone know, given that several billion other people on the planet
also didn't comment.

In a day to day human interaction choosing not to choose is valid
(high quality) behaviour, and that behaviour is apparent to those
interacting humans. Perefectly illustrated by Marsha's parable.

It's very hard to translate "inaction" or "a knowing look" to e-mail.

It's similar to another problem that recurrs, when we find ourselves
debating definitions (eg of quality and say the social / itellectual
distinction) when in fact we already know that definition may not
improve the situation, but (some of us) do believe that dialogue
improves understading. If we don't qualify our own or each other's
statements how do we make any progress - with e-mail as our medium ?

Less debate may be better as far as "defintion" is concerned, but how
do you say that, without using words (give that we're using e-mail).

I've laboured that enough SA.
Sorry to bog down the thread, which started with and excellent parable.

BTW Marsha - how would you summarise the moral of the story if not:
"In life, it is often better not to make a choice between two choices offered."
Ian

>
>
> m
>
>
>
> At 11:24 AM 1/23/2007, Ian wrote:
> >Then you are in denial Marsha,
> >.... because that is EXACTLY what your story says.
> >
> >Unles you'd like to re-interpret it for me ?
> >Ian
> >
> >On 1/23/07, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
> > > At 12:03 AM 1/23/2007, you wrote:
> > > >Very entertaining Marsha,
> > > >and an excellent parable to illustrate the excluded middle,
> > > >
> > > >Give a man two choices and he should choose the third - the middle way.
> > > >Q - Choose A or B
> > > >A - No, you choose.
> > > >
> > > >Excellent
> > > >Ian
> > >
> > > Ian,
> > >
> > > I feel you couldn't be more off the mark.
> > >
> > > m
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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