[MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?)

[pholden at davtv.com]

Quoting ARLO J BENSINGER JR <ajb102 at psu.edu>:

> [Platt]
> Arlo. Case and others reflecting scientism say, "Don't ask because there is no
> who or what." So, "Oops." 
> 
> [Alro]
> Not "oops". "AHA!" How many times do I have to say it? Even if you don't buy
> that they are different, please use "AHA!" when referring to my position. And I
> will promise to use "transcendent consciousness" rather than "God" when
> referring to yours. Deal?

I have no objection to God as a possible basis for reality along with 
Consciousness and Quality. I think "oops" pegs your position perfectly. Anyway,
it's just a metaphor, so no reason to get upset about it. :-) Incidentally,
"oops" reflects Ken Wilber's position, who, as you know, is held in high
intellectual esteem by some contributors here.

> "The Quality which creates the world emerges as a relationship between man and
> his experience. He is a participant in the creation of all things." (Pirsig)

Can't find that quote in Lila. He changed his tune about creation from when
he wrote ZMM to when he wrote Lila. like he changed the Romantic/Classic split.  
 
> "The One can only be described allegorically, through the use of analogy, of
> figures of imagination and speech." (Pirsig)

Are you saying that quote justifies your assertion that all is metaphor except
pre-intellectual experience?

> "Looked at but cannot be seen—
> listened to but cannot be heard—
> grasped at but cannot be touched—
> these three elude all our inquiries and hence blend and become one.
> Not by its rising is there light,
> Not by its sinking is there darkness
> Unceasing, continuous
> It cannot be defined
> And reverts again into the realm of nothingness
> That is why it is called the form of the formless
> The image of nothingness
> That is why it is called elusive
> Meet it and you do not see its face
> Follow it and you do not see its back
> He who holds fast to the quality of old
> Is able to know the primeval beginnings
> Which are the continuity of quality." (Pirsing restating the Tao Te Ching)

So the One could be God, Consciousness, Quality -- all basically beyond
comprehension, as I've stated, but nevertheless known. For example, we cannot
define Consciousness, but we know it by being conscious.



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