[MD] Dawkins a Materialist (is watching?) - side question forPlatt and Arlo

[pholden at davtv.com]

Quoting Ham Priday <hampday1 at verizon.net>:

> Hi Platt -- 

> I haven't read Hayakawa.  But the premise that Arlo and Case have taken is
> that no matter how we define or describe a concept, it is a "word symbol"
> that can only be compared with other word symbols.  Their philosophy is that
> any belief system is necessarily symbolic and has no fundamental basis in
> reality.  Since the only reality we can "know" is the experienced world,
> belief is a sham -- an "experimental enterprise":

I wonder when they feel a toothache if their belief system tells them it doesn't
hurt? :-)

> [Arlo]:
> > Metaphysics, as Dewey and Pirsig see it, is an experimental
> > enterprise.  The concepts and other instrumentalities it
> > utilizes are in no sense ontologically superior to the "gross,
> > macroscopic, crude" things of primary experience. They are
> > artifacts of inquiry, fashioned within a specific context of
> > available means and valued ends, just like other human tools.
> 
> The upshot is that these are people who have no beliefs.  They are nihilists
> in the fullest sense of the word.  They "get their kicks" by reducing
> statements offered by the rest of us to meaningless abstractions.  When I
> asked Arlo what pleasure or contentment he gets from being a nihilist, he
> replied:
> 
> > I dunno. Annoying those who think they have articulated
> > The One True Philosophy.
> 
> This nihilistic attitude extends to the MoQ, as well ...
> 
> [Ham to Ron]:
> > Arlo insists that my Essence is a metaphor, and perhaps it is.
> > But it's no more metaphoric than Pirsig's Quality.
> 
> [Arlo interjects]:
> > Arlo would never say otherwise.
> 
> I don't know if you have the patience to deal with nihilists, but I see no
> point in discussing ontology or metaphysics with individuals who deny the
> value of a philosophical concept.  I told Arlo to get back to me "when you
> believe in something."
> 
> Maybe you'll have better luck.

Well, they believe that beliefs about reality are not absolute, a self-refuting
statement, i.e., logically absurd. But then again, they seem to put faith in
critical thinking which believes in the efficacy of logic. So I guess you might
say their beliefs are flexible.

I'm not sure what to believe other than the highest good of all -- the freedom to
investigate, acquire, hold and change beliefs. So if Case, Arlo or anybody
else believes in nihilism (and I'm not sure they do) or are flexible in their
beliefs, that's OK by me.   



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