[MD] the apple of my eye

[Joseph Maurer]

On Monday 2 July 2007 9:41:28 AM Arlo writes to Platt to Ron

<snip>

[Arlo]
Pirsig himself compares the Quality with The Tao, and there is an 
deliberate association between Pirsig's thesis and Zen Buddhism, one 
Pirsig articulates frequently (see both the MOQ Summary and Pirsig's 
interview with Tim Adams on Ant's site).
But on the deepest level, an esoteric reading of most spiritual 
systems demonstrate their underlying similar foundations. They are 
culturally disparate, to be sure, and nationalistically manipulated 
throughout the ages, but when one targets "spirituality", and begins 
to seek that which lies beyond the culturally-specific metaphor of 
the myth, one finds a common wellspring of understanding. Whether one 
seeks to adopt the metaphor of the Christian Gnostics or the Zen 
Buddhists is hardly relevant... except for those who seek to raise one 
exoteric system above the other, and this usually aligns with 
nationalism, power and the subjugation of the flock.

Hi Arlo, Platt, Ron and all,

[Joe]
Esoteric and exoteric! Subjective and objective! Dq and Sq! Generosity and Greed! Conscious evolution and cosmic evolution.  IMO The octave is the model for evolution. Pirsig wonderfully sees that destruction of the lower lever by the higher level destroys the higher level since the foundation for DQ intervention is lost. Morality is real.  If the Doctor does not modify his destruction of germs by a specific remedy, he destroys the organism. This is evil and he destroys himself since evolution has been lost. Morality is real. I am not thinking about abortion, or non-violent resistance to evil.

The intellectual level is being destroyed by dogmatic assertions of a view from a higher awareness (social), or higher intellectual level. Have individuals reached these levels of enlightenment above the intellectual level?  IMO Pirsig, Christ, Buddha, Mohammed, Ghandi, Campbell, Plato, Plotinus etc. are examples of enlightenment. 

When the intellectual level uses dogma instead of the flow from the lower level of the proprietary awareness (conscious) social from individual experience for its realization of law it loses contact with evolution and falters.  IMO I echo Pirsig when I observe that only experience, value, quality puts a spotlight on valueless dogma.  Objective dogma is not proper to law-revealing intellect.
Dogmatic assertions destroy the intellectual level.  IMO the intellectual level is a level of law, and has to see the circumstances of separate conscious individuals manifesting their relationship. Proprietary awareness (consciousness) is the social level. IMO This level is best expressed by "I am empty"! Two delicately- balanced-sourced-evolutions, cosmic and conscious provide the fodder for the intellectual level of law. Conscious dogma from religion as well as cosmic dogma from education can be dangerous to the intellectual level of an individual.  Doctor beware! You may be killing yourself! Arlo’s warnings have teeth.

Joe



[Platt to Ron]
But, I think you are onto something comparing Christian doctrine to the MOQ.

[Arlo]
Pirsig himself compares the Quality with The Tao, and there is an 
deliberate association between Pirsig's thesis and Zen Buddhism, one 
Pirsig articulates frequently (see both the MOQ Summary and Pirsig's 
interview with Tim Adams on Ant's site).

But on the deepest level, an esoteric reading of most spiritual 
systems demonstrate their underlying similar foundations. They are 
culturally disparate, to be sure, and nationalistically manipulated 
throughout the ages, but when one targets "spirituality", and begins 
to seek that which lies beyond the culturally-specific metaphor of 
the myth, one finds a common wellspring of understanding. Whether one 
seeks to adopt the metaphor of the Christian Gnostics or the Zen 
Buddhists is hardly relevant... except for those who seek to raise on 
exoteric system above the other, and this usually aligns with 
nationalism, power and the subjugation of the flock.

In other words, if your goal is to aggrandize Christianity, you are 
on an evil path. If you goal is to uncover the meanings buried in the 
esoteric language of Christianity towards demonstrating the 
universality and commonality of all mankind's myths (and hence all 
"man"), you are on the right path (as a Buddhist might say). I wish I 
had faith that you were on the latter path, but given your 
unrelenting idolatry of "Western Culture", and more specifically 
"American-Christian" culture, I fear its the former. Ron, be careful 
the flames you fan. The next song you may hear is "Onward Christian 
Soldiers"...



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