[MD] What are the Intellectual and Social levels?

[MarshaV]

SA,


There was much agreement, and this was a valiant attempt to put it 
all together.  Thank you.

Marsha



At 10:45 AM 7/4/2007, you wrote:
>Ian, Marsha, David, and gav,
>
>      I'm noticing a connection here that with a little
>bit here and this over here, yes, and put it together
>and a perspective might be lining up.
>
>      David said this, "Therefore one can have a social
>'thought', but unless it is manipulated in some way
>then it is only social. Once this 'thought' is
>manipulated using the rules of grammar, logic or
>mathematics then one is being intellectual."
>
>     gav said, "the intellectual level is about ideas.
>ideas and the relationships between ideas, which are a
>higher level of ideas... and so on... until an
>intellectual/intuitive apprehension of the "whole* is
>gained
>
>      Marsha said, "As a result, their best
>mathematicians were unable to use the principles of
>geometry for anything unrelated to real world
>problems--they did not take their system of
>mathematics and turn it into an abstract system of
>logic.  They were also not inclined to put math into
>their philosophy.  The Greeks were different; they
>embraced the abstract and the philosophical, and
>brought mathematics to its highest point in ancient
>times..."
>
>      Marsha, you also pointed out Archemedes principle
>of buoyancy and how this principle could be used to
>make a boat somewhere else, even out of sight of a
>boat already made.
>
>      It is this manipulation of symbols were we can
>pick them up, that is pick these ideas up and rove,
>wander, move-about with these ideas and use them in
>another location out of sight of where the idea comes
>from.  The abstract system of logic, math, and grammer
>uses an idea/thought in further manipulation, as gav
>says, "...ideas, ideas, and relationships between
>ideas..."  Using this abstraction system we can make
>new thoughts, principles, and understandings.  It is
>somewhat as you pointed out Marsha, a impractical
>system, but not necessarily impracticality proves that
>we're using this intellectual abstract system.  As
>Pirsig said, he's maintaining a motorcycle.  This is a
>practical machine that can help transport you from
>point A to point B to visit, vacation, go to work,
>etc...  It is walking on wheels.
>      This abstract system of logic math, and grammer
>that lifts an idea into abstraction further
>abstraction and further abstraction, that builds
>relationships between other abstract thoughts.  As
>Archemedes made a 'short-cut' principle that helps
>somebody understand how to make a better boat without
>having to go through all the old mistrials, hang-ups,
>and such.  These short-cut, abstract systems quicken
>our experience of how to make a boat.  Using these
>short-cut, abstract systems upon the intellectual
>level we don't have to build the computer over again
>and come up with all the principles in how this
>computer might work, etc...  These abstract systems
>can jump-start a teenager to by-pass what took
>generations to do, and this teenager can build a
>computer.  Not necessary from scratch, that's the
>whole point, the teenager uses an abstract system that
>catapults the youth to making a computer without
>starting from scratch.
>      I don't find this abstract system to be strictly
>impractical as the outcomes can circulate from the
>intellectual level back into the social level and
>technology - things can be made.  Societies made
>better, etc...  Abstract systems are thought
>experiments that physicists perform.  These thought
>experiments move around the mind and on paper and what
>works and doesn't work can be abstracted without
>having to go into the $ of making this experiment and
>that experiment to find out what will lead the
>experiment upon the best path.  Still the experiment
>will be performed and may not work well, and new
>avenues of abstract thought are opened to discover
>what might have went off-track, but at least one
>doesn't have to experiment and thus, experience over
>and over again to see what is practical, meaning what
>will work on all levels in a more harmonious and
>better way.
>
>
>thanks.
>
>woods,
>SA
>
>
>
>
> 
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