[Moq_Discuss] [MD] Aristotle & DQ

[MarshaV]

At 07:00 AM 7/24/2007, you wrote:
>That's where I would disagree - by deliberately setting a self 
>fulfilling tautology as the definition:
>
>Thing occurs because of motive, the motive is to be better, the 
>thing that occurred was better.
>
>Sounds stupid and is, but its the same as saying "things happened 
>becuase they were predisposed to happen", which is synonymous with 
>"things happened because probability favoured it", which begins to 
>sound less stupid. When I then talk about the lack of independence 
>between a thing and the wider pattern in which it resides, and its 
>the predisposition of the whole system which favours a set of events 
>involving the subject, it begins to sound positively sensible.
>
>Where given "improvements" are considered to be made within the 
>defined subset moral codes of each observer defined set, I have of 
>course lost all real sense of what it means to improve something, 
>but have sucessfully (albeit badly) defined betterness.
>
>I'ts complete doublethink, but IMO a delusion of high quality.

I cannot agree or disagree.  It does seem high quality to so thus.


> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of MarshaV
> > Sent: 24 July 2007 10:59
> > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > Subject: Re: [Moq_Discuss] [MD] Aristotle & DQ
> >
> >
> > At 05:44 AM 7/24/2007, you wrote:
> >  >Fair point,
> >  >but even the words "dynamic" and "quality" are assumptions overlaid
> >  >on that essential source.
> >
> > And so also "worth, or merit, or value, or betterness or any of the
> > other synonyms for good."
> >
> >
> >  > > -----Original Message-----
> >  > > From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> >  > > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org]On Behalf
> > Of MarshaV
> >  > > Sent: 24 July 2007 10:41
> >  > > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> >  > > Subject: Re: [Moq_Discuss] [MD] Aristotle & DQ
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > From, 'A brief summary of the Metaphysics of Quality'
> >  > > by Robert Pirsig October 2005
> >  > >
> >  > > "The Metaphysics of Quality, or MOQ, is simply a
> > philosophic answer
> >  > > to the question of what is Quality, or worth, or merit,
> > or value, or
> >  > > betterness or any of the other synonyms for good. There are many
> >  > > possible answers but the one the MOQ gives is that you
> > can understand
> >  > > Quality best if you don't subordinate it to anything
> > else but instead
> >  > > subordinate everything else to it.
> >  > >
> >  > > It says there are two basic kinds of Quality, an
> > undefined Quality
> >  > > called Dynamic Quality, and a defined quality called
> > static quality.
> >  > > Static quality is further divided into four evolutionary
> > divisions:
> >  > > inorganic, biological, social and intellectual. Our entire
> >  > > understanding of the world can be organized within this
> > framework.
> >  > > When you do so things fall into place that were poorly defined
> >  > > before, and new things appear that were concealed under previous
> >  > > frameworks of understanding. The MOQ is not intended to
> > deny previous
> >  > > modes of understanding as much as to expand them into a more
> >  > > inclusive picture of what it's all about.
> >  > >
> >  > > The "Quality" of the Metaphysics of Quality is not a
> > basic substance,
> >  > > or anything like it. The Buddhists call it "nothingness"
> > precisely to
> >  > > avoid that kind of intellectual characterization. Once
> > you start to
> >  > > define Quality as a basic substance you are off on a completely
> >  > > different path from the MOQ."
> >  > >
> >  > > http://robertpirsig.org/MOQSummary.htm
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
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