[MD] Sorryyyyyyyyyyyyy

Thu Jul 26 09:46:18 PDT 2007

----- Mensagem de spiritualadirondack at yahoo.com ---------
    Data: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:52:10 -0700 (PDT)
    De: Heather Perella <spiritualadirondack at yahoo.com>
Endereço para Resposta (Reply-To): moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Assunto: Re: [MD] [Moq_Discuss]  Aristotle & DQ
      Para: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org

>      [Ham]
>> If I were a psychologist, I would conclude from
>> these woeful complaints that
>> your conscience is hurting and that you should take
>> another walk in the
>> woods.
>
>      But your not... hahahahha!  As to another walk in
> the woods, but I will thank you.
>
>
>     [Ham]
>> Just for the record, I have NEVER referred to anyone
>> here as a "Parrot" --
>> with or without the cap "P".  In fact, I've never
>> even used the word.  It
>> was Ron who said "I'm not a Pirsig Parrot," as you
>> now have also, so if the
>> shoe fits, you can wear it.
>
>      WoW!  Sooorrrry!
>
>
>      [Ham]
>> I have used the term "acolyte", which means
>> "follower in the same path or
>> group," to describe the MD participants in general.
>> I've also suggested,
>> here and elsewhere, that Mr. Pirsig has established
>> something of a cult
>> following, in the sense that his writings are
>> constantly quoted to prove or
>> refute the validity of the arguments debated.  I
>> think almost any outsider
>> would agree with that assessment.
>
>     Ok, on a MOQ website, we'd expect that.  On a MOQ
> website, an understanding of MoQ would help, but you
> like your thesis, which is fine and dandy, as long as
> you know it's YOUR thesis that uses Essentialism that
> has a history.  You quote Eckart (spelling?), so...
> what's your point here anyways, maybe your just
> sayin', I don't know.
>
>
>     [Ham]
>> I have never claimed, let alone "insisted", that I
>> know the MoQ better than
>> its author.  That would be ludicrous.
>
>      When you discuss the MoQ in a way that clearly
> differs from what Pirsig is saying, such as the basic
> meanings of what static and dynamic are, maybe I'm
> incorrect, maybe everybody here differs on what static
> and dynamic are.  You like to refer to the dictionary
> as to what these terms mean, instead of understanding
> what the MOQ is trying to do, which takes some
> redefining - it is a metaphysics unto its' own.
> You've redefined essence, I'd say same thing.
>
>      [Ham]
>> I'm sorry you feel that I talk over
>> you.  If this is true, it's certainly not
>> intentional.  I'm a "learner" here
>> like all of you, and much of what I've learned about
>> the MoQ has started
>> with critical questionning.
>
>      I think this "talking over me" stems from your
> fringe understanding of the MoQ, which is very
> unclear.  You know your thesis much better, but I'd
> say once you understand the MoQ then you could make a
> better decision as to what the MoQ is, but then again,
> I also didn't like pineapple pizza the first time I
> tasted it and I still don't like it and maybe I never
> will.
>
>
>      [Ham]
>> Also, I don't understand the bit about my "copying"
>> somebody else's
>> philosophy.  All philosophers borrow ideas from from
>> each other, which is
>> what has sustained Philosophy as a cumulative effort
>> through the ages.
>
>     I agree.  It is your repeated use that the MoQ is
> poetic.  Are you saying it's NOT philosophic?  Poetic
> to me states something creative.  Copying locks out
> creativity.  Much of this is probably due to me not
> understanding your thesis as well as you do, but then
> again I haven't spent years on an Essence website and
> read books on Ham's Essence.  Now as to the MoQ, I've
> read some books and waded through a website about it
> for over a year now, so I don't expect myself to
> understand your thesis as much as you do.
>
>
>     [Ham]
>> I think you misunderstand the process.  You seem to
> be
>> implying that this is a
>> form of plagiarism or "cheating" on my part.  I can
>> assure you that the
>> fundamental tenets of Essentialism are my own, and
>> if you find them stated
>> by someone else calling himself an "essentialist",
>> I'd surely like to know
>> about it.
>
>     NO, that's not what I'm saying.
>
>
>      [Ham]
>> I know you like the MoQ and feel you've benefited
>> from it, and I'm happy for
>> you.  I can even understand why a dissenter like me
>> can be a thorn in your
>> side.
>
>      It's your dissent accompanying a seemingly
> misunderstood view of what the MOQ basics are, such as
> what static and dynamic means.  Maybe I'm incorrect,
> but that's how it seems.  I've seen it before.  You
> come off as if you overlook the MOQ without any effort
> to understand it, but then say its' wrong or
> insufficient.  I would say the same thing about
> canoeing.  If you've never tried it, then how can you
> really say you do or don't like it.  It's the same as
> a child.  They don't like green beans, but have they
> tried them - no, then how can you say you don't like
> it, try it once, but then again, my parents said this
> to my brother when it came to red beets, so he finally
> tried them and threw-up all over the place.  He likes
> red beets now and attributes his throwing-up to his
> mental state at the time.
>
>
>     [Ham]
>> But please don't accuse me of remarks and claims
> that I didn't make,
>> or take my remarks as an attack on you or anybody
>> else.  I hope we're all sufficiently grown-up to
> distinguish healthy
>> criticism from personal insults.
>
>
>     I hope so...
>
> breezy,
> SA
>
>
>
>
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