[MD] Alternatives to the scientific method

Fri Jul 27 06:57:13 PDT 2007

{Jos]
Or more accurately "the observer" is an analogy/synonym for the patterns
produced by SCn.

Come on folks - more suggestions, practically speaking this one was
crap!

[Ron]
observer effect, it's allways going to have an influence, It has been
postulated that
the mind observes multiple universes/dimensions at once as phenomenal
reality and when
we focus on one universe/dimension we isolate it to the excusion of all
others
and do not see  it's relational connection. With your model, an observer
equation
could be developed. we are made of what we are observing,
..hmmmmmm

> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of Laycock, 
> Jos
> (OSPT)
> Sent: 27 July 2007 11:42
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Alternatives to the scientific method
> 
> 
> There is an observer in this model, but as its a microcosm of the 
> larger system and where I'm applying it as a metophor for that larger 
> system then its true that there is no observer who is not themselves 
> part of the dataset under investigation.
> 
> I dont think that stops it from working though I just have to make the

> assumption that "the observer"(/programmer) always has sight of the 
> patterns produced by SCn. So that by definition my observer is always 
> of the hghest level derivative order pattern available.
> Sounds good to me, where's my screwdriver.....
> 
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
> > From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of gav
> > Sent: 27 July 2007 11:17
> > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > Subject: Re: [MD] Alternatives to the scientific method
> > 
> > 
> > forgot the observer eh?
> > 
> > 
> > --- "Laycock, Jos (OSPT)"
> > <Jos.Laycock at OFFSOL.GSI.GOV.UK> wrote:
> > 
> > > Ian --
> > > > 
> > > > > I was not referring to the hypothesis, but the
> > > four step
> > > > process itself;
> > > > > that is presumed common sense too, but unfounded
> > > and untestable
> > > > > in itself. (A meta-problem)
> > > 
> > > Ham
> > > 
> > > What grounds do you have for this claim?  And what would Ian 
> > > Glendinning propose as a more efficacious alternative to the 
> > > scientific method?
> > > 
> > > Me:
> > > 
> > > Ham, I think that by asking that question you miss your own 
> > > opportunity to even try and come up with something, would you like

> > > to join Ian out on his limb and see if anything springs to mind?
> > > 
> > > To re-state it:
> > > 
> > > 1)Propose an explanatory hypothesis to describe the operation of a

> > > given system, 2)Invent experiments that are potentially 
> > > confounding of that hypothesis and test it to destruction.
> > > 3)Repeat steps 1 & 2 iteratively until satisfied that no further 
> > > potentially confounding experiments can be conceived of.
> > > 4)Write down your conclusions and show them to some other 
> > > scientists.
> > > 
> > > Seems reasonable enough, but the issues are:
> > > Why look at that particular system?
> > > Why test these particular hypotheses?
> > > What defines the operational parameters of the system? - and 
> > > further, When science by its nature makes a requirement of 
> > > impartiality, how do you ensure that you pursue hypothesis 
> > > formulation with equal zeal as experimental investigation? Its 
> > > like asking a lawyer to be defence and prosecution at the same 
> > > time.
> > > 
> > > So, enough negativity then, lets have some suggestions, Mine is as

> > > follows:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > "Test everything"
> > > Random/Chaotic hypothesis formulations are made by a supercomputer

> > > SC1 based on a dataset of all available data. These are constantly

> > > "tested" by an adversarial supercomputer SC2, and the results of
> > > SC2 are fed back to SC1 as further information on which to base 
> > > new hypotheses.
> > > Communications between computers 1 & 2 is monitored by 3rd 
> > > independent supercomputer which maps the iterations and 
> > > extrapolates from the developing patterns to predict end points. 
> > > These are also fed back to SC1, and the communications between SC3

> > > and
> > > SC1 are monitored and mapped by you guessed it SC4 etc.....
> > > 
> > > The logical operations of SC2, 3 and 4 etc... need to be defined 
> > > and I suggest using a further independent supercomputer to use 
> > > genetic algorithms to define the logic of the other computers 
> > > pragmatically from the results of their own early experiments, 
> > > constantly refreshing them with "new best logics" as it refines 
> > > them.
> > > 
> > > So the whole thing would create layers of patterns of information,

> > > and define sets of pragmatic rules to operate at each level, 
> > > generating no answers at all, but instead setting out the 
> > > available data in one large ordered pattern allowing an observer 
> > > to......
> > > 
> > > oh.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
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