[MD] Alternatives to the scientific method

Tue Jul 31 01:51:52 PDT 2007

For instance this was one response to a recent enquiry from someone else trying to use this site completely inappropriately. Actually I realise its not 13 and over, just that you need to get Mum and Dad to register for you if you hapen to under 13. 

"While I have no idea what the exact requirements for a Ph.D. in your country are, I very much doubt that a topic from this website--designed for children--is appropriate for a student at your level. I suggest you speak with your advisor and other students in your department, and look online (Google Scholar is a great place) for papers on topics you're interested in. Once you've done that, you may want to contact the authors to be sure you just don't repeat their work"

www.Sciencebuddies.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of 
> Laycock, Jos
> (OSPT)
> Sent: 31 July 2007 09:13
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Alternatives to the scientific method
> 
> 
> "SCIENCE BUDDIES.COM ?" !!!
> Excuse me whist I compose myself, Platt you really do quote 
> the most wonderful sources of information, this is a website 
> designed for ages 13 and over to provide help with projects 
> for "show and tell" science fairs.
> 
> They're hardly offering up the pure method for rhetorical 
> analysis, this is a site for helping children to grasp the 
> basic principles - you dont run before you can walk.
> 
> Anyway, for a laugh I've used their "ask an expert" section 
> to post various theoretical questions and will report back 
> shortly, with "the opinion of scientists" for your perusal.
> 
> Thanks for a good laugh!
> 
> Jos 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> > [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of 
> > Platt Holden
> > Sent: 30 July 2007 18:12
> > To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> > Subject: Re: [MD] Alternatives to the scientific method
> > 
> > 
> > Jos:
> > 
> > [Jos}
> > > Please confront the below process head on:
> > > 
> > > Scientists agree on what the scientific method is, I use it 
> > exactly as
> > > intended and propose a hypothesis to explain some observed 
> > phenomena. I
> > > subject the hypothesis to repeated experiment and fail to 
> > dis-credit it. I
> > > accept my hypothesis pragmatically as valid. This is what I 
> > have done and
> > > this is the conclusion I draw. I have arrived at it 
> > scientifically, so in
> > > what way was this not science? 
> > 
> > Seems to me you may have left out an important criteria of 
> > the scientific 
> > method, namely, measurement. From:
> > 
> > http://www.sciencebuddies.org/mentoring/project_scientific_met
> > hod.shtml
> > 
> > that  outlines the steps of the scientific method. Among the 
> > steps are: 
> > 
> > "Construct a Hypothesis: A hypothesis is an educated guess 
> about how 
> > things work:
> > "If _____[I do this] _____, then _____[this]_____ will happen."
> > You must state your hypothesis in a way that you can easily 
> > MEASURE, and 
> > of course, your hypothesis should be constructed in a way 
> to help you 
> > answer your original question.
> > 
> > "Conducting an Experiment: Analyze Your Data and Draw a 
> > Conclusion: Once 
> > your experiment is complete, you collect your MEASUREMENTS 
> > and analyze 
> > them to see if your hypothesis is true or false."  (emphasis added)
> > 
> > I don't remember Pirsig setting out any measurements that 
> > were repeatable
> > much less agreed upon. Sure, you can roughly rate static 
> > quality patterns 
> > on a scale of 1 to 10 or A, B, C etc., but individual 
> > assessments would 
> > vary all over the lot. I give my Buick a quality rating of A, 
> > but my next 
> > door neighbor would give it a C- compared to his Honda. Such 
> > would hardly 
> > qualify as a scientific study.
> > 
> > >From an historical perspective, measurement is also key in 
> > the scientific 
> > method. From Ken Wilber in "Eye to Eye:"
> > 
> > "But there is one other point in regard to Galileo and 
> > Kepler, and the 
> > most important point at that, the very heart of the matter. 
> > We saw that 
> > others before them had carefully used the eye of the flesh; 
> > and others 
> > before them had, in a crude sense, used a type of induction, 
> > trying to 
> > validate their theories in several circumstances. But Galileo 
> > and Kepler 
> > hit upon the real and essential secret of empirical-inductive 
> > proof: in a 
> > scientific experiment, one desires to see if a particular 
> > event occurs; if 
> > it does, something changed. In the physical world, change 
> necessarily 
> > involves some sort of displacement in space-time; 
> displacement can be 
> > measured. Conversely, if an event cannot me measured, it 
> > cannot be the 
> > object of an empiric-scientific experiment; and as far as 
> science is 
> > concerned, it does not exist."
> > 
> > Obviously, Pirsig's Dynamic Quality cannot be measured. 
> Little wonder
> > science refuses to acknowledge its existence. But, they can't 
> > deny Quality 
> > exists since they consider the scientific method to be very 
> > good indeed.
> > 
> > Platt
> >    
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