[MD] The Trouble With Wilber

[David M]

see comments

> dmb said:
> In Wilber's conception "Spirit" is detectable and natural.
>
> DM asked:
> I genuinely enquire, now does he demonstrate this?
>
> dmb answers:
> Like Pirsig, he rejects sensory empiricism in favor of a much broader
> empiricism. Then mystical experiences can count as empirical evidence. Its 
> a
> different kind of science and maybe it is still in the process of being
> born, but its still based on experience and peer review.
>

DM: I'll buy that. But how do we tell if someone has had these experiences
or if they are a nut?


> DM asked: How do interiors fit into the MOQ scheme described by Pirsig?
>
> dmb answers:
> Values. Morality. Mysticism. Radical Empricism.
>

DM: I'd add imagination, and full pass access to the sphere of the possible.


> DM: How are complex cognitive structures described in MOQ terms? How are
> advanced forms of consciousness created?
>
> dmb answers:
> These structures would be within the 4th level of the MOQ, but they aren't
> named in the MOQ per se. In the same way, the MOQ's social level would 
> have
> several layers within it. And these advanced structures of consciousness 
> are
> created through a process of evolution, just like everything else.
>
> DM said:
> But to transcend dualism do we not need to be able to embrace an
> understanding of language that only divides a reality that is ultimately
> one. And what is so difficult about that?
>
> dmb says:
> I think there is a difference between grasping a philsophical idea and the
> experience of Nirvana, if that's what you're saying. I mean, linguists
> aren't necessarily mystics.
>

DM: True.