[MD] The Trouble With Wilber

[Krimel]

> [Krimel]
> How would you measure depth? Most of the scientists, philosophers,
> theologians who ever lived are working today. There are most doctors,
> teachers and students. Would you say the shear number of them and their
> proportions in the population at large are factors? How able the 
> percentage of people operating at the various levels of Maslow's hierarchy

> of need? Or the percentage who or literate or the average number of hours 
> per week available to pursue depth?
> 
> Are these just gimmicks? 
> 
> Cell phones? Can anyone forget the recorded calls of victims saying their
> goodbyes from the World Trade Center or those hijacked planes? We and 
> anyone living henceforth can share identical memories of those voices. 
> Doesn't something in that count for depth?
> 
> Wiki? How many times has Wiki been cited on this forum? Most of us rely on
> it instantly to provide information about everything from global warming 
> to the Ramones. Don't you think that your use of it has increased the 
> depth of your understanding and expanded your consciousness?
> 
> Mp3 and video compression allow you listen to or watch everything from the
> BBC's In Our Time to the programming on Wilber's Integral Naked site. 
> Surely this is only further evidence that I do not understand the problem 
> but even if you factor in pay-per-view webcams and off shore virtual 
> casinos the range of options represented is more than simply horizontal.
> 
> There has never been the promise of increased depth either from spiritual
> practice or academic discipline or shear hedonism. But writing, printing 
> and now all of these "gimmicks" have made the acquisition of depth easier 
> and therefore more probable.
> 
> But I could be wrong. How would you measure depth; even enough to say it
> isn't there?

[Platt]
Try this:

"PRINCETON, NJ -- 18 December 2002 -- Contemporary college seniors scored on

average little or no higher than the high-school graduates of a half-century

ago on a battery of 15 questions assessing general cultural knowledge. The 
questions, drawn from a survey originally done by the Gallup Organization in

1955, covered literature, music, science, geography, and history. They were 
asked again of a random sample of American college and university students 
by Zogby International in April 2002. The Zogby survey was commissioned by 
the National Association of scholars."

[Krimel]
So you would suggest scores on standardized tests as a measure? That might
be a good start. Are there others measurements? 

I am also curious about how you think some the examples above have affected
you personally. Have they enhanced the depth and breath of your personal
experience or left them unchanged?