[MD] intelligent design

[Ron Kulp]

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of pholden at davtv.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 5:01 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] intelligent design

Quoting Ron Kulp <RKulp at ebwalshinc.com>:

> [Platt]
> 
>  It's the view of current science I find lacking in explanatory power,

> like attributing what can't be explained to "emergence" and "chance."
> 
> [Ron]
> 
> How is the definition of "moral force" any more descriptive than 
> "emergence"?
>  Pirsig equates "moral force" with "growth" correct? 

Moral force is the cause of emergence. The cause of emergence from the
science view is ???
 
> Growth refers to an increase in some quantity over time. The quantity 
> can be physical (e.g., growth in height, growth in an amount of money)

> or abstract (e.g., a system becoming more complex, an organism 
> becoming more mature). It can also refer to the mode of growth, i.e. 
> numeric models for describing how much a particular quantity grows 
> over time:-wiki
> 
> EMERGE
> Latin emergere derived from e- (a variant of ex-), meaning 'out,
forth' 
> 
> To come into view. 
> To come out of a situation, object or a liquid. 
> To become known. 
> 
> 
> [Ron]
>  these two definitions seem almost synonomous. they are close enough 
> that one must take into account the context in which it is used, which

> in my opinion also paralells each other.
> close enough to merit some attention and draw comparison/contrast. I 
> agree the term "emerge"
> kinda eludes to manifesting from nothing, but growth doesent really 
> point to much more of a source either, "moral force" seems to be just 
> a method of solving by re-defining. All in all, I think MOQ gives 
> emergence it's source, "moral force" is the source of emergence as far

> as what I gather Pirsig is saying only emergence delves into the four 
> levels with more clarity.
> I see this as aiding Pirsigs thoughts not conflicting with them.
[Platt]
Pirsig asks the question of science, "Why survive?" Science has no
answer. Neither can it answer, "Why grow?" Pirsig has the answer,
"Because it's better." For Pirsig, the world is a moral order. The world
changes (survives and grows) because of a moral force. The best science
can come up with for a cause of change is "chance." In other words,
"Ooops" or "It's a miracle." 

[Ron]

I guess I'm saying that in the pragmatic sense, emergence would be a
useful tool for a savvy MOQer.
because it's theory runs along the same lines as Pirsigs. Pirsig has an
answer while emergence
takes the same concept and delves into the detail of these relationships
of value.


 



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