[MD] Quantum computing

[skutvik at online.no]

Hi Magnus

On 28 Feb. you wrote

> I don't think we can say that "carbon itself remains inorganic"
> because carbon has biological value for carbon based life forms....

This reveals the difference between the level's static (limited) 
view and MOQ's meta-view. From the levels' p.o.v. everything is 
own value. Biology's blindness to being a static level is 
"forgivable", but intellect's claim that everything is inellect is what 
hinders the MOQ to tear loose. 

> .... It's
> yet another *thing* that points to the difference in the SOM division
> of the world and the MoQ levels. 

Yes, see SOM=intellect and it is another static (limited) view.   

> Fixed repertoire? Not if you want to map SOM things to levels. Also, I
> can agree to some extent that SOM is an intellectual pattern. And even
> if it's a very large and complex set of patterns, it doesn't fill up
> the intellectual level by even a fraction. So to say that SOM *is* the
> whole intellectual level is a pretty big leap. I would say that the
> MoQ is also an intellectual pattern. It's an idea, an abstract
> description of something else.

If so the pre-historic and early historic myths were intellectual 
patterns? Is that so?

> Everything that is an abstract
> description of something else *is* an intellectual pattern.

The point is that the said ancient peoplee did not say "Now I'll 
make up an abstract theory". The arrival of that attitude IS the 
very intellectual level. When will this dawn on you and everybody 
else?  

> Is this letter on Moq.org? I'll try to find it.

Yes it is. 

> No, I mean that the brain supports, and contains, intellectual
> patterns. And what is "biological language-value"? Biology doesn't
> value language, it can live on perfectly fine without it.

The biological level evolved from the first "instructions" and the 
said neural concentration spawned what we may call intelligence 
and from this most complex bio pattern the social "instruction" 
(can't be specific) were given. Of course, neither biology nor 
society has any "goal" except escaping stagnation.    

(The mysterious "bio-language" was your insisting on the need for 
a language to retrieve the bio RAM info)  

> It's when
> several cells wants to cooperate to form a larger "animal" that they
> need language to cooperate in their newly founded social "society".
> This language is later used when the animal gets too big and needs a
> neural network to control its muscles. And when this neural network is
> large enough, we call it a brain.

All this takes place within the biological level, it becomes 
completely unwieldly to see biological societies. Biology is 
SENSING. Sensing that an inorganic configuration conveys a 
particular message - that an electromagnetic frequency is "color", 
that an air pressure frequency is "sound"  .. etc, -  and this 
sensing goes all the way till the social level's emotions takes 
over.   

> As Pirsig described in ZMM, the pre-Plato Sophists seemed to use a
> non-S/O based world view. Buddhism and native american indians are
> probably also pretty far outside S/O thinking.

The Sophists were the subjectivists of the emerging SOM while 
Socrates & Plato represent objectivism. Both were part of the 
new intellectual level's "theorizing" about reality. Unknown to the 
former mythological (social) age  
 
> On the other hand, we don't have to get so theoretical about it. A
> shopping list is intellectual patterns and doesn't rely on S/O
> thinking to be understood.

Why don't you extend this argument into the absurdity that 
anything that comes to mind is intellectual patterns?  

> I disagree. Would the MoQ be some kind of 5th level then?

I once called it a 5th. level but it's merely the meta-level, from 
where the Quality context is visible. 

> And what
> distinguishes that level from the 4th? 

Everything - MOQ included - is intellectual patterns seen from the 
intellectual level, while intellect is a MOQ patterm seen from the 
MOQ. 

> What more patterns of this 5th
> level can you find?

Everything becomes Quality patterns seen from this level. 

There have been progress for the SOL-interpretations, most 
people accepts it intuitively when thinking "naturally" (Marsha's 
"mountain view" for instance) but then they slide back into the 
last static latch and starts along the mind-intellect rut.

Bo