[MD] Oneness, Dualism & Intellect

[Laycock, Jos (OSPT)]

Hi Arlo 

I suppose what I was getting at, was that I can envisage a situation in which there is no [apparent] inorganic or biological value changes and the only one visible is a negative social one. 

But in re-stating this I answer my own question, as there can't be a pattern of social values written unless there is an existing pattern of biological and inorganic ones there already.

I see that really the hypoethical nil value change experiment literally can't exist. For the situation to "physically" change and for me to observe it requires changes to its constituent static values at all levels.   

It's self-fulfilling that where the result of an experiment genuinely included no value changes the gases would remain separate.

Cheers Arlo, what was I thinking?

>
> 
> [Arlo]
> I see "betterness" as the reason anything moves from  point A 
> to point B. Can
> you think of anything that moves from A to B because of 
> "worseness"? Or, if its
> a completely indifferent state, why move?
> 
> [Jos] 
> Various chambers contain inert (and uncharged, helium, xenon, 
> argon etc) but
> comercially valuable purified confined gases, dividers are 
> removed such that
> spontaneously the gases diffuse into one another.  Which 
> state is "better",
> pure usefull substrates or the melange? 
> 
> [Arlo]
> While I'm sure the gas particles really care about what YOU 
> think is better for
> them, their mixing indicates that for them "better" is diffused. Our
> manipulation of inorganic patterns (or biological patterns) 
> for social and
> intellectual value notwithstanding, I think you are confusing 
> "better" with
> human-derived social value. 
> 
> [Jos]
> The only difference is subjective cultural/intellectual value 
> in the eyes of the
> observer, to whom the resulting spontaneously occurring 
> result is has almost no
> value as compared with the highly valuable starting point.
> 
> [Arlo]
> Well, exactly. But "better" is not just "what's socially or 
> intellectually
> better for people". A platypus evolved a bill because it was 
> "better" for it to
> have one than not have one. "We" weren't consulted, because 
> its not just all
> about "us". 
> 
> "Now this vagueness is removed by sorting out values 
> according to levels of
> evolution. The value that holds a glass of water together is 
> an inorganic
> pattern of value. The value that holds a nation together is a 
> social pattern of
> value. They are completely different from each other because 
> they are at
> different evolutionary levels. And they are completely 
> different from the
> biological pattern that can cause the most skeptical of 
> intellectuals to leap
> from a hot stove. These patterns have nothing in common but 
> the historic
> evolutionary process that created all of them. But that 
> process is a process of
> value evolution. Therefore the name "static pattern of 
> values" applies to all."
> (LILA)
> 
> I think this may have been the issue Marsha had with regard 
> to my using
> "betterness" than "Quality". I don't see any difference 
> between these terms. If
> something moves because of Quality, it moves because of 
> "betterness". The
> betterness/value/Quality that causes those gas particles to diffuse is
> different than the betterness/value/Quality that makes a 
> person find greater
> value in keeping those particles apart. 
> 
> "When inorganic patterns of reality create life the 
> Metaphysics of Quality
> postulates that they've done so because it's "better" and 
> that this definition
> of "betterness" -this beginning response to Dynamic 
> Quality-is an elementary
> unit of ethics upon which all right and wrong can be based." (LILA)
> 
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