[MD] -elitist ideas

[ARLO J BENSINGER JR]

[Case]
That's a fair question but what do you mean by value-experience? Are you
including value judgments and sentience as part of the value-experience
package?

[Arlo]
I'd say "sentience" is a complex mix of social and intellectual patterns, but is
different from the experience of the amoeba not in "kind" but in "degree".

[Case]
An amoeba is a complex system that moves toward some optimum state of balance
with its environment.

[Arlo]
Um, isn't "optimum" just another way to say "better" (or "best", perhaps)? What
is different from my saying "an amoeba is a complex system that moves towards
some better state with its environment"?

[Case]
Viewed in terms of value-as-preference or aesthetic judgment, one could as
easily focus on vinegar's preference for an amoeba free environment. Vinegar's
tolerance for amoebae could also be measured by introducing amoebae into
various pH values of diluted vinegar see how much vinegar is needed to realize
an environment free of amoebae.

[Arlo]
Sure, why not? Although this is an inorganic pattern of value, and the amoeba's
is a biological pattern of value.

[Case]
Do amoebae react to changes in their environment? You betcha. Do they respond in
ways that are more than the sum of their biochemical constituents? Uh, maybe,
but not by much and certainly not enough to call it judgment or sentience.

[Arlo]
As I've said before, in addition to the broad MOQ strokes, I see a lot of
inter-level gradation. An amoeba and a dolphin are both biological patterns,
but even granting for the time being only biological value-experience to both,
its clear to me the dolphin's is much more complex.

So I'd say the amoeba responds exclusively on the biological level, but that
doesn't mean there is no value-experience on this level. The amoeba certainly
lacks a post-experiential symbolic repertoire, as is required for ascribing
social and intellectual value. That is, "betterness" for the amoeba is
experienced strictly within the biological and inorganic levels. 

[Case]
No but I think "experience" required a nervous system sophisticated enough to
encode memory.

[Arlo]
So the amoeba does not "experience" anything? I know its a strange alteration of
common language to say an electron "experiences" inorganic value, but if that
amoeba doesn't experience, what does it do?

Now, representing that experience symbolically, that's the biggie. And that's
where minds, brains, and all that come in. For me, anyway.