[MD] -elitist ideas

[Arlo Bensinger]

[Case]
We can bend and twist words to mean whatever we want.

[Arlo]
Didn't "chaos" mean something different ten or twenty years ago? Our 
understandings of quantum physics altered the entire way we think 
about the fundamental undergirdings of "reality". And language 
adapted to meet those changing understandings. All I am saying is 
that a similar, radical shift in metaphysics necessitates rethinking 
what words mean under the old S/O logic. "Value" is one. In the past 
(and in most of the present), S/O logic dictates that "value" is 
simply human subjective experience. The MOQ radically destroys that, 
saying "value" is not "human subjective experience", but the Quality 
experience that underlies all of reality, from quarks to Quantum Physics.

I'm no longer really sure what we're arguing against, Case. You seem 
to be suggesting that one can have the MOQ, but change none of the 
ways of thinking or understanding we had previously.

I see nothing in the eso-/exoteric differentiation here. I think the 
strenght of the MOQ is that it doesn't invent new terms that are 
understandable only by an initiated few. Value, Quality, these are 
things everyone knows. There is nothing hidden or arcane in the 
statement "an electron experiences inorganic value". It is a primary 
statement of Quality everyone can relate to. I'd say, instead, it is 
S/O dualism that makes the statement fuzzy. And I am in full 
agreement with Bo on that front. Its because you are so intent of 
sticking with the S/O definition of "value" (subjective experience) 
that it makes this recasting seem fuzzy. Certainly it is idiotic to 
suggest an electron experiences value in any conscious way as humans 
do. And when your use of value is so restricted, Quality remains a 
higher-level subjective experience. But the whole point of the MOQ 
was to overcome the old S/O ways of thinking. "Value" is not 
"subjective experience", it is primary experience going all the way 
down to the lowest particles we can name.

Relativity made us rethink what we mean by "time" and "space". 
Quality makes us rethink what we mean by "value" and "experience". I 
just don't see the problem.