[MD] Micah

Tue Mar 20 04:44:20 PDT 2007

Micah,
Thank you for the frank and honest reply, so what your saying is you
hold a Quantum assertion
That reality is a wave until in the presences of humans then it
collapses into a particle and 
Can be experienced. That the subject in fact creates their own physical
reality. It's one of
The theories going right now, I think what scientists are seeing on an
atomic level is spacial
Distortion but that's just a theory also. The question comes up about
what then is the collective
Consciouse we all share? 
-Ron

Ron,

No axe to grind with anyone. I'm not working on a commission here.

Sorry, the second statement "how can you show objective reality is
primary, objectively - without humans." leads to the first "objective
reality can not be proven to exist outside (or without, or independent
of) humans, it is a fact."

Existence exists, but not without humans. Or, reality exists
objectively, but only in the presence of humans. Or, humans are reality
and reality is human.

The "clutter" is the closely held assumption or should I say belief,
that anything can be shown to exist without humans such as god, or time,
or space. Once you can swallow that, then all is possible from miracles
to time travel - but reality is not what you believe, it is much less.

When you ask "what caused me", I'll assume you mean existence is
general, to which I will reply "I don't know and may never know."

Micah

-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org
[mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org]On Behalf Of Ron Kulp
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2007 1:53 PM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: [MD] Micah

[x]
lets start this from the beginning.

this is the quote that started it all:

"objective reality can not be proven to exist outside humans, it is a
fact."

-Micah

then you switched it to:

"how can you show objective reality is primary, objectively - without
humans."

forcing me to take a stance on objective reality being primary where
originally you stated that "objective reality does not exist, it is a
fact."
I never made the claim that objective reality is primary though your
original stand on subjective reality is absolute for it is "fact" and
you defy anyone to prove otherwise and for anyone to insinuate any
different had "clutter" which you are immune to as an athiest.
assuming you are correct and objective reality does not exist, where did
you come from?
what caused you? certainly nothing objective, did you cause yourself
into being, already aware with intellect and knowledge to create the
percieved objective illusion? where did you get such knowledge? this
logic goes two ways, solopism or theism.
which you claim
to be niether.
thus the confusion.
sincerely
-x

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