[MD] FW: Quantum weirdness

[Ron Kulp]

[Case]
I think the point here is that whatever "caused" the big bang or whatever "happened before" it have no causal impact in our world. Space and time for us start at that point. It is the first cause.

[ron]
Again, what caused the first cause? What is space unfolding in?

[Case]
There are infinities and then there are infinites. Infinity exists at ever point in the universe. There are just as many numbers between 0 and 1 as there are between 0 and infinity. Infinites are funky like that.  

[ron]
Exactly my point.

[Case]
A "point" is a postulate or a first principle defined by Euclid as "that which hath no extent." While it is purely a mathematical concept it helps form the basis for all of geometry even non-Euclidian geometries use the idea. It requires no justification from outside of the system of geometry and as Gödel teaches none can be offered.

[ron]
Exactly my point.

[Case]
I do not think physicists regard the big bang as imaginary. They describe it through the use of mathematical metaphors and test the efficacy of those metaphors against what can be observed through senses and instruments. They engage in bounded speculation. If what you are looking for is some cause for the big bang well so are they.

[ron]
I'm not looking for a cause, because rationally, cause is infinate that's why I say
The big bang theory is less accurate than the infinate reality theory and as you stated sceintists
" engage in bounded speculation." what makes the big bang theory more viable than
The infinate reality theory? That's my question.


-----Original Message-----
From: moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of Case
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2007 11:31 AM
To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
Subject: Re: [MD] FW: Quantum weirdness

[Ron]
All the numbers point to an infinate reality That's not ignoring physics it's seeing beyond physics It's seeing physics for what it is, as a value of the limit.
Physics will infinately be approaching. Both Positive and negative.

And that's what the root of physics is telling us You can't argue that.

[Case]
As I mentioned the cutting edge of physics is metaphysics. It is highly speculative. Hawking has proposed a model for infinite multiple universes.
There are all sorts of mathematical models that might circumvent whatever limits we imagine today.

[Ron]
The limit is the big bang theory.

[Case]
I think the point here is that whatever "caused" the big bang or whatever "happened before" it have no causal impact in our world. Space and time for us start at that point. It is the first cause.

[Ron]
Therefore I think infinate reality is a more accurate theory If your going to base it on physics, at least it is just as viable As the big bang theory.

[Case]
There are infinities and then there are infinites. Infinity exists at ever point in the universe. There are just as many numbers between 0 and 1 as there are between 0 and infinity. Infinites are funky like that.  

[Ron]
The site you forwarded to Ham starts with a point A point is an imaginary starting point it stated.
That point in the 10th dimension is what Ham is talking about Remember that point in the 10th dimension falls to the same paradox as the rounding Error.

[Case]
A "point" is a postulate or a first principle defined by Euclid as "that which hath no extent." While it is purely a mathematical concept it helps form the basis for all of geometry even non-Euclidian geometries use the idea. It requires no justification from outside of the system of geometry and as Gödel teaches none can be offered.

[Ron]
My argument with the big bang is it assumes a starting point Which is imaginary. It suggests an absolute beginning.
the question of cause still remains. It was established Even in that presentation that absolute starting points are imaginary.
Please clarify your argument in this regard.

[Case]
I do not think physicists regard the big bang as imaginary. They describe it through the use of mathematical metaphors and test the efficacy of those metaphors against what can be observed through senses and instruments. They engage in bounded speculation. If what you are looking for is some cause for the big bang well so are they.



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