[MD] Chan and qi

[Heather Perella]

> >      [Dwai previously]]
> > I think it's very important to emphasize the point
> > that people don't "Realize" anything (at least not
> in the spiritual realm) intellectually. This
> realization has to transcend intellect (at the very
least in
> the written form or as is commonly understood these
> days), since intellect is an artificial construct
(based
> on syntax that is artificial).


     [SA previously]
> >     How do you "realize anything" even in the
> > "spiritual realm", or maybe you don't accept a
> > "spiritual realm"?  What is a spiritual realm
> anyways?

     [Dwai]
> I guess this takes us back to syntax again.


     What do you mean by syntax?

     [Dwai]
> By spiritual realm I mean that recess of our
Consciousness that 
> reinforces the Unity of All Reality and reveals the
true nature of 
> existence.

     This is a very good definition.  For years now,
I've been on this moq forum, and I must be ripe for
understanding this now for I believe this one sentence
of yours helps clarify how dq is mystical, practical,
direct, and a hands-on approach to everyday life.
     Dynamic quality (dq) is a valuing process,
though, I would say the static patterns ritualize us
in distinct ways in how we will engage this valuing
process of dq/direct experience that is going on.  Dq
is this "Unity of All Reality" taking place, and dq is
informing us of something yet undefined. 
Consciousness is not necessarily restricted to any
level or non-level (dq).  Consciousness could be
defined within each static level.  Yet, consciousness
does provide meaning when put in a specific context
that would apply to that context alone.  Thus, what
you say here does help correspond the 'valuing
process' that is providing a certain informative view
about the spiritual realm.  
     I agree with your definition of spiritual. 
Spiritual for me has meant 'that which holds this
together'.  Spiritual is the "that" and the "this" of
my definition here, and thus the integrity of
"together" is kept.    

     [Dwai]
> Have I found it? No.

     It is a yellow leaf laying on the earth, and I
walk and say, "Hey, I found a yellow leaf."  I think
you can find yellow leaves, correct?  Unless you live
where no deciduous trees are found.  Then maybe "it"
is a green leaf that you see.


     [Dwai]
> But I do know on an experiential 
> basis, and via intuition that such a realm exists.


     Ah... so you do experience this spiritual realm.

     [Dwai]
> I guess, per my 
> definition, the Spiritual realm could be
corresponded to the Dynamic > Quality of Pirsig's
framework.  This is not anything extraneous. I can >
quote the Advaitin and say that ultimately there is no
difference 
> between me and Brahman (or the Taoist and say we
merge with the > Tao), but that has not become a
realization yet...only intuitive 
> glimses exist (for all of us, at various levels).



     I think this is realized.  Learning and growing
does not mean a before and after.  I see this more as
an on-going process.  We can quote and say "ultimately
there is no difference", and therefore this cold
autumn is cozy enough for me.


     [Dwai] 
> MoQ, imho, stops at the transcendence of SOM.


     Not sure what you mean by "stops".

    [Dwai]
> It doesn't address what  
> should naturally follow (perhaps due to Mr. Pirsig's
> own background  
> in Western Philosophy?)...addressing what has been
> an almost  
> exclusive topic of "Oriental" philosophy. The
> Material/Consciousness  
> divide is the primary culprit here, I believe.


    The inorganic patterns attract to each other.  A
certain awareness of "us" in a system of relationships
joins with each bonding moment, and then carbon
relates in a specific way - boom!  The organic level
is born.


    [Dwai} 
> I have an old essay I had written on this subject --
> http://medhajournal.com/content/view/101/80/


     I will check it out.  

     [Dwai] 
> For those of you who might have read a few other
> links I posted,  
> Rudra is my "Ghost-name", an obeisance to the
> namesake.


     Rudra, looking for wisdom if engaged in obeisance
to this namesake I would guess, correct?  SA or
Spiritual Adirondack is also my  'ghost-name' on the
internet.  I also go by Spiritual Cougar Warrior when
I write or engage in a peaceful, truthful sacred
(special) ritual with the world.  As I learn about
cougar's I find spiritual kinship at this moment in my
life.  This warrior is uses healing power as a weapon
and peace as a shield. The Adirondack mountains hold a
special relationship with me.  I've visited them
twice, and wouldn't mind living there someday.  
    Also, Heather is my wife's name.  I have not
publicly typed my name given to me by my parents on
this forum since I've joined.


     [SA previously] 
> > I would agree that the intellect is only one
> part of this world, and that's why I refer to myself
as
> a tiny skull.  The universe can't fit in this tiny
> skull of mine.

     [Dwai] 
> So does that lend itself to the assumption that
> there is a Big skull  
> somewhere? Where does that exist?

     No "Big skull" that I know of.  Tiny skull is
this skull of mine, in size and complexity, in
comparison to this universe.  In other words, I'm
inclined to be simple, practical, and avoid large
drawn out theories that are ideas upon ideas upon
concepts upon concepts, etc...  I avoid keeping myself
trapped on the intellectual level too long, and how
this "too long" is determined depends upon how far I'm
able to stretch away from the other levels and dq at
any particular moment.  It is circumstance based.


     [SA previously] 
> >      Yes, a much fuller practice of experience is
> on all levels.


    [Dwai] 
> True. The more esoteric the subject, the more
> experiential it has to be.

     I looked up esoteric and didn't find a
comfortable definition on wiki.  If you mean, esoteric
(enlightened) experience and thus, lived-out daily and
nightly and much happens during these moments as when
the squirrel dangled from the branch, and reached into
the bird feeder translates 'spiritual' for the
experience is not singled out on any one static level.


thanks.

icy blue-gray sky,
SA

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