[MD] subject/object: pragmatism

[Ham Priday]

Hello Platt --

You said to Krimel:


> Pirsig stated that the world is primarily a moral order: "Because
> Quality is morality. Make no mistake about it. They're identical.
> And if Quality is the primary reality of the world then that means
> morality is also the primary reality of the world. The world is
> primarily a moral order." (Lila, 7) \
>
> So to clear up the confusion,  do you agree?

Platt, these propositions (equations?) are poetic euphemisms, not logical 
premises.  So you are further confusing your differences with Krimel rather 
than clarifying them.  Pirsig's axiom Morality=Quality=Reality, from which 
you draw these conclusions, lacks empirical or metaphysical validity.   I 
tend to regard such reasoning as "nihilistic idealism".

Even if the world were primarily a moral order, which I deny, it doesn't 
mean that morality is the primary reality.  Morality is a descriptive term, 
like Quality and Goodness.  Descriptions do not a universe make.  The taste 
of chocolate does not bake a cake.  The beauty of Aphrodite does not create 
a woman, nor does the intellect of an Einstein make a man.  The essence of 
reality does not lie in its appearance or its order.  Reality, whether it is 
physical or phenomenal, presupposes a primary source that is more than an 
attribute of its appearance.  Even quantum physics, which has called 
material reality into question, has not abandoned energy as the fundamental 
"building block" of the universe.  Without a primary source, existence is 
reduced to solipsism -- a dreamer's fantasy with nothing to account for it.

> My point is simply that consensus among scientists
> (or any other group) isn't always reliable.

I think we forget that Science is man's methodology for exploring reality as 
a cause-and-effect system.  The material progress we've enjoyed on this 
planet for the last 300 years or so is largely due to what we've learned 
from Science. But if you take away cause there is no effect, and the 
scientific method was not designed to explain the origin of cause.  Only a 
metaphysical understanding of reality can get beyond evolutionary process 
and give us a plausible reason for the existence of cognizant agents in a 
causal world.

Essentially yours,
Ham