[MD] Painting
Margaret Warren
carma at carmapro.com
Fri Oct 5 06:08:08 PDT 2007
Miles Davis once said -
'learn it all (talking about music theory) -
then when you play - forget you know it' (I'm paraphrasing)
yes - there is a 'visual artist's take on this as well.
play as if you are a child - with all of this theoretical
knowledge underneath.
easier said than done!
mm
> -----Original Message-----
> From: moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org
> [mailto:moq_discuss-bounces at lists.moqtalk.org] On Behalf Of
> Mike Craghead
> Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 1:12 AM
> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> Subject: Re: [MD] Painting
>
>
> Peter Corteen wrote:
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > I think 'accident' is an important part of painting. As I
> said, when
> > doing that painting, I found it impossible not to think or
> plan even
> > though that was my intention. I tried to make an
> unpremeditated mark
> > but as soon as it was there it suggested a meaning and this
> > unavoidably informed the next mark.
> >
> > You could say there are no accidents in human doings, only lack of
> > attention. You could say there is no good or bad, only ignorance.
> Hi Peter!
>
> Tricky, isn't it? Planning not to plan; trying not to try;
> intentionally
> doing something unintentional.
>
> Maybe that lack of attention can be helpful: Maybe the way to "get
> there" is to take a page from Douglas Adams, who says that
> the trick in
> learning to fly is to throw yourself earthward, then allow
> yourself to
> be distracted at the last moment so that you forget to hit the ground.
>
> Perhaps if you do the equivalent of that with painting, you can
> "accidentally" manage to paint that mark without "thinking" about it.
> And what shows up? Maybe brilliance, maybe garbage, but certainly
> something to start with: a smudge of pure Dynamic Quality.
> Then you can
> tune your intellect back in and add the static framework that can
> magnify the dynamic inspiration and deliver something "Great."
>
> Same deal with "method acting:" you manage to modify your emotional
> state to such a degree that you are behaving "truthfully," saying the
> lines as written (static), but exactly as you would say them
> if you were
> really the character thinking them up (dynamic).
>
> Or with music: the song is already written; crafted, static.
> Then, the
> performance: all dynamic (hopefully).
>
> I'm out of areas of expertise, but I'm sure that anyone could expand
> this to their own realm... it's been called "flow" and "in
> the zone" and
> a bunch of other swell names... but it's all the same
> creature, isn't it?
>
> Mike
>
>
> >
> > On 26/09/2007, mike at humboldtmusic.com
> <mike at humboldtmusic.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Peter, Marsha, et al
> >>
> >> Peter said:
> >>
> >>> "I recently did a painting where I deliberately
> >>> tried not to think or plan as I worked, that is virtually
> impossible
> >>> to
> >>>
> >> do
> >>
> >>> but at least you can hold the intention; the result was quite
> >>>
> >> interesting
> >>
> >>> but now I know I can knock them off like that any time I question
> >>> it's value."
> >>>
> >> Mike says:
> >> Art is about balance, between the nuts and bolts
> (technique, medium,
> >> static quality) and the inspiration (emotion, dynamic
> quality, etc).
> >> If the balance is off, the art is low quality. If the goal
> is to get
> >> cash, your whole process is fueled by "how to make money," so it
> >> becomes an almost entirely cerebral and "without soul."
> But if you're
> >> too far in the direction of "just letting it happen,"
> nobody but you
> >> is going to get much out of it. Of course it is a "perfectly valid
> >> way to work," but fewer folks will see it's value, unless
> the artist
> >> "accidentally" conveys some static quality during the
> creation of the
> >> work.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original message-----
> >> From: "Peter Corteen" psigenics at googlemail.com
> >> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 00:55:57 -0700
> >> To: moq_discuss at moqtalk.org
> >> Subject: Re: [MD] Painting
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi Marsha,
> >>>
> >>> can an artist's work be any good if the intention behind it is
> >>> driven by
> >>>
> >> the
> >>
> >>> $?
> >>> I don't think so, but in some cases yes. And of course
> artist's have
> >>> to
> >>>
> >> make
> >>
> >>> a living.
> >>>
> >>> $ is obviously not so important for you and that must
> afford you a
> >>> rare freedom of mind.
> >>>
> >>> I only ever sold one painting, a commissioned portrait;
> so $ is not
> >>> so important for me either. Still I could not give them
> away, unless
> >>> it was one that I didn't value
> >>>
> >> but
> >>
> >>> in that case I'd probably paint over it.
> >>>
> >>> Many years ago when I was in the Gurdjieff 'work' I
> remember reading
> >>> in
> >>>
> >> one
> >>
> >>> of their revered books that people must pay otherwise they won't
> >>> value
> >>>
> >> what
> >>
> >>> they've gained, and I think there is some truth in that.
> Of course
> >>> there
> >>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>> payment in kind but that's even better.
> >>>
> >>> You mentioned intuition, I recently did a painting where I
> >>> deliberately tried not to think or plan as I worked, that is
> >>> virtually impossible to
> >>>
> >> do
> >>
> >>> but at least you can hold the intention; the result was quite
> >>>
> >> interesting
> >>
> >>> but now I know I can knock them off like that any time I question
> >>> it's value. The great part of my experience in the world insists
> >>> that there
> >>>
> >> is no
> >>
> >>> value (in that painting) because there was no consideration. But a
> >>>
> >> growing
> >>
> >>> part of me (I hope) says that really that is a perfectly
> valid way
> >>> to
> >>>
> >> work.
> >>
> >>> Also, I taught Alexander Technique in the past and a continual
> >>> problem I
> >>>
> >> had
> >>
> >>> when working on people was that I should not charge them
> because I
> >>> was
> >>>
> >> not
> >>
> >>> 'doing' anything for them - this is difficult to explain
> unless you
> >>> have some experience of the Alexander Technique which is
> about 'non
> >>> doing'.
> >>>
> >>> Changing winds, the only evidence of life?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>> -Peter
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 24/09/2007, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Peter,
> >>>>
> >>>> I only destroyed my 'personal journal' after my husband
> died. My
> >>>> art journals and sketch books, I destroyed last
> February. I think
> >>>> you might be right that it was ceremony, and probably in both
> >>>> instances. I like creating ritual and ceremony. They may be
> >>>> conscious or unconscious. It's making an idea a more substantial
> >>>>
> >> event.
> >>
> >>>> About the paintings, they are shadows of the experience,
> so I have
> >>>> relatively no problem parting with them. Of course
> there are some
> >>>> I am attached to more than others. Those I do take to the
> >>>> Goodwill, I take with the hope that they find a good
> home (wherever
> >>>> that might be). With me it is all about the experience of
> >>>> painting.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would prefer not to link $ with my painting. Most of
> my life was
> >>>> directed towards making $. Much of that was for very good
> >>>> reasons. But the winds changed and I find myself
> moving in another
> >>>> direction. Some of this direction is dependent on
> intuition rather
> >>>> than thinking, so it is difficult to find the words.
> >>>>
> >>>> But who knows, the winds may change again.
> >>>>
> >>>> Marsha
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> At 04:14 AM 9/24/2007, you wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Marsha,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> the way you describe getting rid of your journals and
> sketchbooks
> >>>>>
> >> after
> >>
> >>>> your
> >>>>
> >>>>> husband died sounds like you were ceremoniously
> stepping forward
> >>>>> with resolution to a new life and throwing them out was
> a way of
> >>>>> making
> >>>>>
> >> sure
> >>
> >>>> that
> >>>>
> >>>>> there was no going back on your decision. I think that
> is partly
> >>>>> how
> >>>>>
> >> I
> >>
> >>>> felt
> >>>>
> >>>>> when I threw my stuff away.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am glad to hear that you didn't throw away your paintings
> >>>>> though!
> >>>>>
> >>>> Giving
> >>>>
> >>>>> them to Goodwill sounds like a good idea but not one I'd be
> >>>>> capable
> >>>>>
> >> of
> >>
> >>>>> having myself. The only honourable option open for me
> is to try to
> >>>>>
> >> sell
> >>
> >>>> them
> >>>>
> >>>>> - on E bay if necessary. I think giving them to Goodwill is to
> >>>>>
> >> undervalue
> >>
> >>>>> them.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards and thanks for your reply.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Peter
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 21/09/2007, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> At 11:21 AM 9/21/2007, you wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Marsha,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> do you know why you destroyed your journals and
> sketchbooks; of
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> course
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> that's a rhetorical question and only for you to answer for
> >>>>>>>
> >> yourself.
> >>
> >>>>>>> I have destroyed journals too in the past mainly because they
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> contained
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> private/embarrassing stuff and I got fed up of holding on to
> >>>>>>>
> >> them. I
> >>
> >>>>>> don't
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> currently keep a journal now, probably because I know
> I'd write
> >>>>>>>
> >> stuff
> >>
> >>>> in
> >>>>
> >>>>>> it
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> that I'd later want to throw away. Now I wont write anything
> >>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>
> >> is
> >>
> >>>>>>> throwawayable.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The subject of your email was 'Painting'; if I recall
> you don't
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> usually
> >>>>
> >>>>>> sell
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> your work, so you must have many 'works'. I'm in the same boat
> >>>>>>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>>> have
> >>>>
> >>>>>> many
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> items from many years ago that hold I on to, I gaze
> at them and
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> wonder
> >>>>
> >>>>>> about
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> improvements but I practically never go back and alter. I'm
> >>>>>>>
> >> destined
> >>
> >>>> to
> >>>>
> >>>>>> lug
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> all those canvases around for the rest of my life; a labour of
> >>>>>>>
> >> love?
> >>
> >>>> Will
> >>>>
> >>>>>> my
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> son have to throw them away for me after I die?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> regards
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -Peter
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Peter,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not sure, but I wanted to know what it would be like not to
> >>>>>>
> >> have
> >>
> >>>>>> them. These were my art journals, sketchbooks with
> poetry. My
> >>>>>> personal journals I burned a year after my husband died, on the
> >>>>>>
> >> date
> >>
> >>>>>> of our anniversary. A couple of months after that anniversary
> >>>>>>
> >> date I
> >>
> >>>>>> woke up and took all my clothes (everything) to the Salvation
> >>>>>> Army. I had become quite unglued. Not sure why I
> destroyed the
> >>>>>> stuff more recently, curious maybe. It was a tea party, an
> >>>>>>
> >> emptying.
> >>
> >>>>>> I do identify with the stacks of paintings situation.
> A couple
> >>>>>> of years ago (maybe less, maybe more) I took a bunch to the
> >>>>>> Goodwill Store. But I have again many, too many. I've giving
> >>>>>> some
> >>>>>>
> >> away. I'd
> >>
> >>>>>> love to give more away, but to whom? I'm not sure who
> would want
> >>>>>> one. I told my son that when I die to take them to
> the Goodwill.
> >>>>>> Maybe some will find a good home.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Very much a labor of love.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks for writing.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Marsha
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 16/09/2007, MarshaV <marshalz at charter.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Greetings,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> A few months ago, I destroyed 15 years of
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>> journal/sketchbooks. This
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> morning I started a new book. Thank you.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Marsha
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
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