[MD] Forget about Empiricism, no thanks.

[David M]

Hi Bo

See comments below.

BO:
> Well, as in the "what came first: SOM or Knowledge " question,
> this is much of the same "hen vs egg" paradox.


DM: My point, is that a full undertstanding has to consider all the chickens
and eggs involved and that causality flows up and down the levels. A man
can redirect water to the dam or if he gets his actions wrong, fall in and 
drown.


> The basic struggle is intellect's "all men are free and equal" vs
> the religious "accept your lot because it's God's will." What new
> struggles that don't fit this pattern I would like to learn about.


DM: Religion is made up of many, often conflicting, aims, seeing
one as the most significant is a simplification.

>
> Seeing the muslim world as a repressed class using religion as a
> tool to get their natural born rights isn't viable. If so the muslims
> who have moved to the West would be happy to have their
> freedom and rights?  Instead they want the oppression - religion -
> they left introduced in the Western societies, and strap on
> explosive rucksacks to make their point.

DM: This is not true of the vast majority so that ruins your analysis.

>
> You can hope for "much change in the Islamic world" but it will
> never come about. A democratic, secular, muslim country is an
> oxymoron.
>

DM: I propose Turkey as a clear example.

> I don't know if it's my analysis you deem "dodgy", but IMO it's all
> these well-meaning "complexity" analysis leading nowhere,
> except avoiding reality which are to blame.
>

DM: Nothing well meaning,it just seems far more complex to me.
Beware of over simplification.